Dodgy Church Pastor

[observant79]

Since last year June I have been attending a church local to me in Leicester and think the Pastor runs it like his own personal business. AIBU to think that a charity/religious church shouldn’t be run by a range rover driving, designer clothes wearing, council house living, 3 trips a year to South Africa taking, no other job/jncome having “man of God”?

I can’t help but feel the charity commissioner needs to investigate this man.

The church ks completely run by him and his wife and they collect tithes and offerings weekly and emphasise no one will be blessed if they don’t give to the church.

Pentecostal churches are huge in Africa - the lifestyle attached to the majority of these pastors shouldn't be a shock as it's pretty normal, whether the church is here or there. Not excusing, but different cultures, norms etc.

I think possibly OP indicated the Trustee she spoke with was female. The Trustees on the report unearthed by @CraftyGin are all male, and two have the same surname, appointed or reappointed recently.

Your observations are interesting. I suppose the TV work could feed into the income stream implicitly?

Accounts are far from my area of expertise but this report seems rather, ah, casual to me. Is that too cynical?

Do all the pastors say you must give to ME in order to me saved? That isn’t my impression of how it works in America (though as PP say the dodgy ones do this).

How does it sound now? Not sure I understand this post.

Churches attract people who are a bit strange. When they’re given any kind of official role, their power / victim / saviour complex emerges.

Poor boundaries basically.

OP, in your case, that oddness goes further still and your set up sounds like a scam.

I don't think the TV work is necessarily a profit making enterprise.

The objectives of this charity are to spread the Christian faith (basically, the same as any church). One of the way it does this is through TV work - it says it airs a weekly TV programme on the Faith Network (?).

Yes, the report is just a couple of paragraphs, with each thing in a single unenhanced sentence. This is so different from the CofE where a trustees report is presented at APCM. Our trustees report runs to over 70 pages.

You are right to be cynical, or skeptical.

I said the lack of registration to Gift Aid is a huge red flag. While there may be legitimate reasons for this, I don't think they fit in this circumstance. A charity is duty bound to follow the Fundraising Regulations, and this means raising as much money for the charity as possible - so they should be claiming gift aid, which is worth up to an extra 25% to them. They could do a lot of outreach work with an extra £40000 to play with.

One of the reasons for not claiming Gift Aid is to be clandestine about their finances and reporting. This links with what the OP said in her OP.

Yeah, we are all fools - Fools for Christ. Happy to wear that badge.

OP, I think you should raise your concerns with the charity commission. I would not mention the council house or caravan. Focus on the lack of governance, and the fact that it potentially appears as though funds could be used as a personal piggy bank.

Fascinating as this thread is you should probably get it taken down. It’s very identifying.

So the reporting is sloppy or worse and some aspects of the reported spending, such as the cars and travel, seem out of line.

Others, while lesser amounts, may be questionable.

The spending on TV may be an end in itself, a way to save souls - is that right? I cannot find evidence of the IBM TV shows online, FWIW.

@CraftyGin has raised some excellent points. I would add that Pastor Melusi has his own website describing the ministry. It is all extremely vague, to say the least.

OP, this is all repulsive but it isn’t clear to me whether the law is being broken. I think your best bet is to summarise what you know, from your own experience and this thread, and take it to Citizens’ Advice for help with next steps, if any.

If no law is being broken, all you can do is get out. If anyone threatens you, of course they are breaking the law and you need to go to the police.

Perhaps someone else will have a better idea for you

Those are your words and your DIY badge. Lack of boundaries and difficult personalities with a superiority / victim /saviour complex are all too common. It's not so much about belief but behaviour. There must be some anthropological studies exploring this phenomenon. Sadly it's not a healthy dynamic all too often. Shame OP got caught out.

A charity is not allowed to raise funds through coercion.

This includes knowingly taking money from people whom you know can't afford it. I have given back money before in such circumstances.

The words scamming and bastard spring to mind.

My mother attended a church while I was young and the pastor had 6 kids all in private school. Very nice new build in a very nice area. Very nice car. The family all wore designer clothes. No side job other than being the pastor of the church. His wife was a stay at home mother. Now I’m older I do wonder. The constant pressure she was put under and other people in the church to donate was a lot. She gave 10% of her income to the church for a long time while struggling to pay basic bills. Eventually the went bankrupt and lost the house…..while the pastor lived a very comfortable life.

Thats sound advice, I have found a local journalist who recently reported on a charity fraud. Am going to send her an email this weekend. Hopefully she investigates as I don’t think anyone will intervene.

@observant79

The trustees in their annual report are different from the ones listed on the charity commission main page.

ME - CHURCH - GOD. No difference 🤷‍♀️I'm sure Olsteen, Graham, Operandi, Graham et al live(d) modestly....

Operandi? COPELAND.

"I don't think the TV work is necessarily a profit making enterprise." Depends on the context. Prosperity gospel on TV is a thing for a reason.

OP your posts have identified the church and the pastor, along with the trustees. This is a public forum and you are making serious allegations. I would seriously consider asking Mumsnet to delete the references to their charity number, and the post from another poster which referred to the pastor's name! You have given details about yourself which may make you identifiable to members of the church should they see this.

I go to an independent church, its run with full accountability, every year they do an open meeting talking about the vision, finances, etc. Don't guilt trip people over giving. Yes the pastor is payed a fair wage for his job, the hours he puts in, when the church was smaller he worked a second part time job to make up his hours.

He literally says you will not be blessed unless you give to this altar and this church. Word for word, three services a week.

This is the Prosperity gospel. You're supposed to give to God (erm the pastor) in order to 'get wealth' for yourself. Of course what will happen is the pastor gets rich and you don't. It's a big scam. Leave the church, what are they going to do, show up on your doorstep and drag you back?

I looked at the accounts. A lot of the income seems to be spent on radio and tv programmes and building hire. The pastor has an allowance of around £29,000 but there’s also vehicle costs of around £7000 (does the church have vehicles)? There’s some travel costs too but with the income at around £170k and a lot of church outgoings on normal things like hire and utilities, not sure how this could fund a very flashy lifestyle including overseas holidays, caravan purchases etc.

Perhaps he has side businesses too or family wealth. I think it’s a big leap to assume he’s using the church as a personal cashpoint. It’s also a very serious allegation to make about someone on a public forum.

Ultimately, if you’re concerned, first of all talk to the elders (assuming there’s some kind of church oversight) and ask for more transparency. If you don’t get what you need, you can make a report to the Commission.

It doesn’t sound C of E at all - more like the American money-grabbing type of ‘church’ - if you can call them that. I have seen them on US TV - running announcements at the bottom of the screen saying so and so has just been cured of cancer, etc. so give give give give give give…

And AFAIK the C of E doesn’t have ‘pastors’ - at local level it has curates, vicars and rectors.

Why attend this "church"?

We are CofE and the vicars have a standard quote low wage. Most of their wives/husbands are better off in their professions.

It's quite common to call a lay minister, pastor. For example, student pastor, children's pastor...