Schools asking for parental contributions

[ButamIwhoyouthinkIam]

I’m sure this one will be divisive and is partly down to personal politics but I’m interested in the consensus.

state funded primary, good catchment, in deficit, like many others.

email last week to suggest a voluntary contribution from parents to cover essential materials, lays out case etc. but already have quite a few requests annually for enrichment and also trips. Has active PTA and most families donate to this through usual calendar of events.

email sets out rising costs of utilities etc and asks parents to plug the gap. I’m not sure this is the right solution for something that is inherently gov funded and it feels like a slippery slope.

IABU: it’s reasonable for schools to ask this and for parents to be happy to pay

YABU: a different option eg lobbying gov or showing the deficit would be more reasonable. Contributing financially allows the funding problem to be hidden

That's irrelevant. The schools that get more PP are just as underfunded as the ones that don't. Being given £900,000 to achieve something that would take £1,200,000 to do to a good standard isn't intrinsically a more fortunate position to be put in than being given £675,000 to achieve something that would take £900,000 to do to a good standard.

Conversely, schools in affluent areas have far worse government funding. At least, this is what our head has told parents. We’re in a v affluent area with very few “free school meals” pupils so the funding is much less than in deprived areas. So the school needs those affluent parents’ contributions just to bring them up to par - it won’t provide an advantage.

I'm not sure its a new concept. Back when I was school an annual £50 was asked for as a voluntary donation. That was in the late 80s when a Mars bars was less than 20p.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5432829-to-feel-offended-by-this-email-from-the-school?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

This thread made interesting reading - some knowledgeable posters really delved into the funding of schools linked to (mostjy) the socioeconomic status of the students and some practical and moral problems that arise. I found it really informative. School funding does NOT work how many people think.

My kids’ school ask for £10 / month per child, and £40 per year / child for equipment for DT. We provide cooking ingredients, stationery and anything else they need. We’re in affluent area and I know some people donate more.

The least well funded school I ever worked in was a state grammar in a "leafy" part of the home counties. They were entirely reliant on parental contributions and fundraising.

It's around £2bn p.a. I believe. If it wasn't there it would make a heck of a difference, although I take your general point about Rolls Royce expectations on a Nissan Micra budget.

Yes, this is the situation at our school.

It's not a new thing. Most schools used to have a thing called a School Fund, collected every week. I started school in 1961 and, every Monday morning, we took in the week's Dinner Money (5 bob) and our School Fund (a penny, so half a p). I assume it was used for nice extras though like the Christmas party and the leavers' party, rather than materials. Trips were paid for by parents but I do wonder if it was also used as a sort of hardship fund to subsidise those who couldn't pay, because I don't remember anyone ever being left behind.

School fund has always been a thing in some schools. Parents pay £50 for the year or something. But not all schools. I think more are doing it now.

I will never pay it, even though I can afford to. Parents/volunteers/donations/teachers good will should not be used to cover up and fix the government's failure to adequately fund education. And the more we prop it up out of our own pockets, the more they can get away with underfunding.

I was a teacher for 15 years and have DC in ks1-GCSE ages. I firmly believe the education system needs to collapse so government are actually forced to do something, and the sooner the better. I left last July because underfunding made the job impossible. Too many children are being failed and it's not the school or the teacher's fault.

Do both. Lobbying for an increase in school funding won't achieve any quick results. Donate towards immediate costs.

Don't however let donations become a permanent feature. In Ireland the "voluntary contribution" to schools is anything but voluntary.

No, PP is not irrelevant. Many dc don't necessarily need any extra funding at all as they are not behind. However others are but the schools have some send funding too. Theres no school that feels well off though. Many have asked for parental continuations for decades! My school did for a tennis court surface in the 60s!!!! It’s not unusual.

We had a very active PTA in primary but some parents made it known that they didn’t want to feel compelled to attend fundraising events in their precious spare time and would prefer to make a donation instead. I bet in most schools it will be the same families supporting PTA fundraisers - and the same families not, yet they benefit equally from the funds. Obviously in some cases that will be because they just don’t have the spare money but in others it is lack of desire to get involved, and they would rather just give cash. Maybe that is the reaaon behind jt, and it people may be more likely to contribute if the school asks for it?

It’s nothing new. I’m in my 50s now but when I was in secondary school in the early 80s, there was what they called “school subscription” where parents were all asked to pay a set small amount per term on a voluntary basis to cover items they couldn’t afford to get.
If I was a parent of a child at school now, if I could afford to pay I would do to make sure my child had what they needed for school, regardless of my political opinion.

They presumably would still need materials. What were they using SEN funding for? Holidays in the Bahamas or scissors and glue?

Anyone can have access to the school governors meeting minutes where finance will be discussed and deficits laid out.

Anyone can have access to the school governors meeting minutes where finance will be discussed and deficits laid out.

It's a no from me. It's the thin end of the wedge and will cause it to become expected rather than local authorities funding things properly like they should. Plus as a twin parent l will be hit twice. No one just gives me more money: I either spend less and / or earn more. Like a lot of people my finances aren't amazing and l can't prop other people up

Many schools are struggling with their worst deficit for years because they have had to pay increase in NI contributions which was not budgeted for. for most schools 80% of their budget is on staffing and that number has now increased. They have to pay everything else out of the rest of the budget which leaves very little for things like art supplies ect. That is why they wil be asking.

its also worth noting that many items in a school are ring fenced - eg sport and capital contributions like computers.

A lot of people don't care that much about education in this country, which is why the government doesn't do much. Opening pubs before schools after COVID showed up our national priorities.

However, up to 30% of secondary age pupils receive private tuition, so clearly quite a large number of parents don't depend entirely on what the state offers.

former school governor who was responsible for finance at a school that had high % PP.

In a system of parental choice, that school will statistically be in a more deprived area and won’t be top of the list for many parents. In some areas that means a surplus of school places especially in primary with lower birth rates. Less children on seats = less funding for the school, and whether there are 15 students in a class all getting PP or 30 means you still have to pay for 1 teacher despite not quite half the funding.

Add in the SEN crisis and most children not getting EHCPs, those who do it’s delayed funding, many children whose English is not their first language etc. and PP becomes a drop in the ocean. Sorry to say it helps but billions is still woefully inadequate to fund education properly and any 1 line item doesn’t account for cohort of the pupils or context of the school.

My experience talking to lots of Heads and the LA accounts team is this is very common.

My children’s school asks for an annual contribution and I refuse to pay it. There is a constant PTA machine operating that already costs a lot of money to donate to (and that last year raised in the region of £30k!!) that I’m not then going to pay another £80 per child on top of that for “supplies”

“Plus as a twin parent l will be hit twice”

Many people have more than one child at the same school so will be “hit twice” (or 3 times or more).

“Spend less or earn more” how exactly would you propose that schools earn more? Isn’t that what they’re trying to do in asking for donations…

My son's primary school which is in a deprived area is £61k balance and £4k revenue. I was expecting it to be much worse than that for some reason though they have never asked for money other than 'voluntary contributions' for trips.

No there was a PRU on site and they were using their budget in the main school.

you’re not going to be able to dress it up as snogging but scandalous 😆 although the bigger scandal was probably that the head was quietly moved on rather than sacked