To reckon that Reform will win the next election, and to be utterly terrified about it? 😪

[mumofoneAloneandwell]

i am a leftie

I think they’ll win

If don’t, they’ll have the majority in a hung parliament and govern as a minority party before joining with the Tories.

i’m going to tighten my belt re running my home and prepare for onslaught as the country becomes unrecognisable

Authorities shooting anyone in this country just doesn’t happen and won’t suddenly if there is a Reform government and I suspect you know this. There might however be a possibility that British citizens might no longer be killed, attacked, stabbed and raped by migrants from backward appalling cultures which currently happens as proved comprehensively by every statistic available when the information isn’t deliberately withheld. We also might have a functioning NHS although that will be a much harder job for any party but they might actually try to make it work as it simply doesn’t in many cases and for many people.
Our leaders in every party “kowtow” (or observe diplomatic norms) to leaders of many distasteful foreign regimes who actively try and harm us. For example Starmers current behaviour towards China who are a regime who would do us a lot more harm than Trump and they do currently . Unfortunately we are a tiny little country with little power soft or otherwise in an increasingly unstable and dangerous world and we have to behave accordingly. A Reform government however would be more concerned with protecting the UK than worrying about International law (which is only a concept of treaties and agreements we have entered into and can withdraw from), foreign criminal’s human rights and being world leaders on climate change, trans rights and every other niche obsession our elites have rather than concern for hard working tax payers (of every nationality and colour).
Do we really think a Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem or Green government will change anything or improve our lives? They won’t as they have proved over and over again. Reform is really our children’s last and only hope.

No, I think Labour will get another term.
Reform are small, they represent a minority of people, they just get more airtime than they deserve.
If they do get in it will be a disaster that only lasts one term, thankfully

If they get in they’ll try to smash democracy, just like Trump will. It’s beyond me why people would shit on their forbears’ legacy in this way, by voting for them. The immigration debate is a complete red herring. They’re after far more than that.

Yes, it's beyond me that so many people refuse to see Reform for what it is. We are getting a sneak preview by watching the US. We'd be so fucking thick to essentially go and lap up the same vomit.

I have just signed up to Prosper UK (www.prosperuk.com). It's unashamedly centrist and that's exactly what we need in this country: a sound opposition that is not fascist. I was going to write 'not radical' but at this point, it looks like the most radical thing you can be in this country is a centrist! I think anyone who is not for Reform, including Labour supporters, should support the initiative because it's time we dragged all main parties back to the centre.
Populists are the empty calories of politics.

@BeAmberZebra you do know that a prominent member of Reform has recently been sent down for taking Russian bribes? And Farage has made no secret of being an admirer of Putin. If you think our children's last hope lies in them, you are very very wrong. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5yd878ejqko

Now do Labour MPs sins - predominantly for dodgy sex and Tories MPs sins -predominantly dodgy financial. All well documented. Then look at their members. It does beg the question why so many of our elected officials indulge in these activities. To date Reform per capita has the least transgressors.

@BeAmberZebra I was referring to your point regarding national security. As far as I know, nobody in the current Labour Govt has taken bribes from China or Russia. Or expressed admiration for Putin or other dictators. When you talk about scandals, bribes from Russia and documented admiration of Putin (see a pattern forming in Reform) is far more dangerous for national security than what the press have ripped Angela Raynor apart for.

@BeAmberZebra while we're on the topic of bad behaviour https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/1-in-18-reform-councillors-suspended-expelled-or-resigned-since-may-400341/

More councillors from other parties have been suspended expelled and resigned than Reform councillors. It a fact of life for local government. The MSM simply ignore it unless it’s Reform.
I am not sure our national security is being protected by our present or previous governments. Giving away Chagos and paying for the privilege, Chinese super embassy for a regime that cannot be trusted, importing fighting age men from backward cultures with no idea who they are and what their criminal and mental health history is, persecuting our veterans and making it impossible for serving officers to do their jobs properly, attempting to outsource our defence, agriculture rules and myriad other competencies to the EU who have proved an unreliable partner since Brexit and have actively trued to harm our interests.
The actions of Nathan Gill were repulsive and have been rightly condemned by all the Reform MPs and senior people and he has been dealt with properly by the courts. However his actions do not taint Reform MPs or members just because he was once associated with them in the same way as some of the appalling actions of Labour and Conservative MPs doesn’t taint their MOs or members.

I'm no more terrified of Reform than I am of the Greens and Tories. When you look at the "performance" of Labour, that's more terrifying than all of them as well as the most disappointing. And don't get me started on the Libdems 🤣

@BeAmberZebrathe EU has been an unreliable partner since Brexit? Why would that be, I wonder? We wanted to cut ourselves off from them, but we thought we could maintain all the benefits without the pay back? We had a close trading partner in the EU and spliting from them has wiped billions off the economy. Illegal immigration has rocketed since Brexit. Far from the prosperous utopia we were promised, its been a disaster and has meant the EU no longer has our back to the same extent. This wouldn't have happened without Farage. He is a power crazed racist bully.

Unfortunately we are a tiny little country with little power soft or otherwise in an increasingly unstable and dangerous world and we have to behave accordingly.

Shame about Brexit then, wasn't it? We've lost our EU vote and veto, plus much of our credibility and soft power. Those Brexiteers who insisted that we didn't need the EU for defence purposes because we had NATO must be kicking themselves. At least France had the sense to stay in the EU and to keep their own independent nuclear weapons despite repeated pressure from the US to give them up.

I did ponder mentioning the EU. I thought it might derail any rationale discussion. Let’s agree to differ on that one as we will never agree or persuade each other. However would love to hear from you on all my other points.

Not sure what the EU or Brexit has to do with a single issue I raised as if we had remained a member it wouldn’t have changed a single issue that I discussed.. Bringing Brexit into every discussion really derails having a rational debate I’m afraid.

@BeAmberZebra you said the EU had proved an unreliable ally since Brexit. Are we not allowed to mention, in direct response, what a disaster Brexit has been for our national security? Maybe because that might draw attention to the dreadful damage Farage has already done to our country.

In terms of the number of Reform reps who have had to leave because of scandals or racism not being close to Conservative or Labour's, well they are a new party so havent had as much time in. But without a close analysis on figures, I'm not sure how you can speak with such authority on relative numbers in relative time frames. I was just illustrating how they have already been dropping like flies because you didn't seem to know that.

Have you heard about how Reform are already breaking promises and spending ludicrous amounts locally? Get this, 75k spent on flags in Notts and millions on a waste consultant in leics. Not reducing council tax like they promised. They are realising that doing the job is not as easy as they thought. I don't think for one minute that Labour are perfect and they have made lots of mistakes, but they are grown ups with experience of governing and are starting to make progress. You seem to think Reform will lead us straight into some kind of utopia.

I'm interested to know what you think of them recycling tories, who also helped cause the mess the country is in? Braverman and Jenrick didnt do so well in 14 years of power. What would be different this time?

In terms of being in league with countries and leaders whose human rights records are poor, well Farage already has a very close relationship with Trump. In America, the ICE regime is being accused of murdering innocent people in the street.

Silly me, I thought this was a thread about Reform. And the prospect of "Chief Brexiteer" Nigel Farage becoming Prime Minister.

I've seen no evidence that a Reform government would increase the UK's standing in the world or improve the NHS. Quite the opposite, in fact.

No UK Elected councillor at any level can be forced to resign.

Any elected member is free to change party at any time without causing a by election.

Reform / UKIP / Brexit Councillors have the highest attrition rate
because they have the weakest understanding of the job in hand
(see Kent and that 50% Council Tax cut)

Goodness only knows what a mess they would make if given the keys to Whitehall

Farage - 41 mentions in the Epstein files and his name is in 21 documents. Do we want this as PM?

Not sure this is true. Other analysis suggests the opposite is in fact the position. Possibly depends on methods of measurement. Remember there are lies, damn lies and statistics. Also many Reform councillors were previously Conservative and even Labour, Lib Dem’s and Green councillors so they understood as well as most newly elected councillors what the job involved. Every party has councillors that were never councillors before, otherwise we’d never have any councillors.

Very strange take on what has been released in the Epstein files. Have you heard of the gentleman named Peter Mandelson? You know the one labour parachuted into the poorest most working class seat in the country and continually brought back into government despite overwhelming evidence of wrongdoing and then bizarrely made him US ambassador ignoring more competent and experienced people. You know the one who provided secret government documents to Epstein, can’t recall receiving large amounts of dosh or wandering round in his underwear. To focus on the mere mention of Nigel Farage in totally innocent circumstances shows how desperate the left are becoming.

Nice deflection. Yes, we’ve heard of Mandelson and he’s been ejected from his party. Farage on the other hand has ambitions to run the country.

Mandelson definitely causing Labour problems atm. Terrible judgement by Starmer to bring him back.

A few will stick by them but probably still falling in numbers.

@BeAmberZebrawell if you like the thought of a paedophile being your next PM then we obviously have very different values!

Have you missed the Mandelson situation? Labour are deep in it rn. Some still back them, bizarrely.