To think that 4 G.C.S.E's needed to do business studies is ridiculous

[magicalmadmadamim]

My eldest DS is 16 and been at college since September. He has 2 G.C.S.E equivalent certificates in English and Maths.
I'm sure back when I was in college business studies was always a foundation course?
He really wanted to do business studies and they have put him on some really rubbish courses that he is super bored with.
Is it me or is education getting much harder now?
Hardly any of his school friends passed any g.c.s.e's :(

If you fail to scrape through 4 GCSEs it’s possible a BTEC is a stretch.

also: It was no more than him and a group of young lads indulging in basically a bit of teenage horseplay……

No one gets expelled for JUST this - very much sounds like the straw and proverbial camel.

You aren’t helping him by minimising shitty behaviour.

My own son had a very chequered academic history and was on course to fail most of his GCSE's. He did, however have a passion for one subject and it was this that led him to just about scrape through the 5 GCSE's needed to get onto a L3 Btec.

His friend was allowed onto the same course even though he failed maths (at Grade 3) because he had 5 other passes. Other friends got mostly Grade 3's, they were allowed to do the Level 2 Btec and they then progressed onto Level 3 a year later.

But anyone who only got Grades 1/2 HAD to do the Level 1 Foundation type course first. Allowing them straight onto a Level 2 Btec course would not have set them up for success.

I studied Business Studies as a degree- I had an A* in my GCSE Maths and English and i found the accounting modules difficult. There was a fair bit of maths involved for the economics, statistical modelling, project planning and we also crossed over into corporate law and contract wordings. I understand this is a lower level but I wonder if it might be more technical than you are thinking it is? 4 GCSE's should be an absolute requirement for moving onto further study.

My son is doing a Level 3 OCR Extended Diploma in Business - which is the equivalent of the BTEC, just a different award route.

It's appropriately challenging, and has to be, because he's on course to get 144 UCAS points from it, which will easily ensure he can go on to Level 4 (undergraduate degree) study at university.

The coursework element is particularly intense, and he will sit 4 exams this year in total, having done a couple last year. The course content is also fairly advanced really - economics, law, ethics, accounting, sustainability, sales, marketing... Not in huge depth, but it's not a walk in the park either.

So no, I don't think it's unreasonable for there to be a requirement to have 4 GCSEs. Your son is unfortunately in the Find Out stage of Fucking Around, and I say this with some sympathy because I have always found it baffling that we put teenagers under such tremendous pressure to set themselves up for The Whole Of The Rest Of Their Life when, developmentally, many of them are the least equipped to deal with that in terms of maturity and hormones and whatnot.

Your son sounds like a bright lad really - he will find his path.

So he needs two more GCSE or equivalent to take the Btec Bus. studies?

If it doesn't matter which can't he take them in subjects he actually enjoys? And what about actual business studies GCSE? Surely that would be a sensible one to take?

he's going to get a nasty shock in the recruitment office when they tell him how many GCSEs you need to get a go on the selection course, tbh.

Really?!!! GCSEs DO NOT determine intelligence or ability. Many millions across the globe run successful businesses without a hint of a GCSE. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Yes but I mean what level are they - is he doing a series of level 2 essential/functional skills courses to get him back on even footing with GCSE level so that he can qualify for a college course in 1-2 years? Or is he doing e.g. a T level (level 3) with multiple different modules/classes, it just isn't business studies?

This is the consequence of said 'horseplay'...Tough shit if your son doesn't like it. If you want him to succeed at all in life you need to put more energy into telling him this and less energy into reenforcing to him how 'unfair' life is. As pp have said he really wouldn't have been expelled for nothing so I think it needs to start with you taking this seriously. What exactly did he do?

Well GCSEs aren't offered around the globe, so obviously... but I'm skeptical that there are "millions" of people running successful businesses without their country's equivalent 16yo qualification.

What kind of school has most of the year 11 year group failing GCSEs? Is this something that your son told you? Getting 4 is not difficult - especially if there’s no specific subject requirement.

It's A*-G here but more fail to get 5 GCSE at C including maths and English at DC secondary school than get that - but local college helps most and careers servcies and NEET thing run by Welsh gov is very active in the area running programs. Plus kids like mine small cohort still do really well.

I wonder if Comefromaway right with this:

Those grades are not high enough to get onto a Level 2 Btec (usually you need 4 GCSE's at Grade 3) so he has enrolled onto a 1 year Level 1 course which includes Functional Skills.
He has passed the L2 functional skills (presumably during the November exam session) but now needs to complete the rest of the Level 1 course which will give him the qualifications needed to progress onto the Level 2 Business Btec in September.

Then he needs to complete the level 1 course and hope he does well enough to progress to the level 2 course next acadmcid year- and if he's not currently doing that well enough can understand why they won't offer the next level 2 course.

I think for anything academic (which to me business studies is) was a minimum of 5 GCSES including maths, English and science. I took A Level business studies (albeit 15 years ago) and I’m sure I had to have an A-C in all of these plus IT.

Thanks for this.

Is seems not many people get that teens can sometimes be overgrown children!
Plus he is a summer baby which has never helped. I sometimes wonder if it would have been better holding him back a year.

Good! He needs a shock!
He is adamant that he needs no GCSEs.
I'm hoping the army drills some self respect and discipline into him. He is so arrogant and rude.

How on earth can having 4 GCSE’s be a ‘high standard’ as it’s appalling, especially when kids typically do 10-12. And having grades 1-2 is dreadful. He needs to redo a year.

Exam results are distributed on a bell curve so around a third of students have to fail. (Grades 1-3)

If my son barely scraped two GCSEs and got expelled two weeks before his exams I would be reading him the riot act. Not blaming the school for being "mean" and minimising what is obviously shit behaviour.

I would also be telling him to suck it up and do the shit boring courses that college has suggested for him. If he wanted to do something more techy and interesting he should have thought about that when he was doing whatever horrible thing that got him expelled, "horseplay" more like horse shit.

Be honest with yourself, you are doing your son absolutely no favours by not making him take responsibility for the consequences of his own actions.

If he can't manage to pass only 4 GCSEs - especially as most pupils sit 8 of them - he's clearly not able to handle a BTEC.

Whether that's because he's not bright enough or because he's not mature enough to knuckle down is irrelevant. The college would be wasting time and resources that would better benefit someone more able or focused.

And no, education is definitely not getting harder. if anything far more accomodations are made for students than in the past to allow as many as possible to access education.

Eh? GCSEs aren't offered across the globe

Are you saying that there are millions of people running profitable businesses all of whom aren't capable of attaining educational qualifications at 16 years of age?

Because
......no, you're wrong. I mean....wtaf?

Thanks for the useful replies.
I think it is a matter of sticking it out until the end of the year to prove himself. We haven't ruled out the possibility of an apprenticeship if college doesn't work out although he has no interest in practical things like building etc. He likes the idea of cooking but not overly passionate.
For now he has his server he made on minecraft and it is doing well so far.

Passing 4 GCSEs is not difficult unless you have learning or educational needs. You seem quite blasé about the fact that your ds got expelled a few weeks before exams. I’m sure school wouldn’t have done that lightly. He needs to sort himself out and improve his attitude.

Is your DS a member of the manoverse or whatever ridiculous term Tate uses,
I was horrified to find out that my DD ex partner was a fully paid up member.
His 'successful ' FOREX endeavours earned him about £3.30 in 3 years

well most of us were teens, some posters here are teachers/college lecturers and some others have gone through the teenage years with their own DCs.

What i would say is that you, and preferably also his father, need to impress on your DS that he must show that he is willing to put in the hard yards, to knuckle down and do even the boring stuff. We all have to do boring stuff in life, it is just something you have to get on with.

If he really really wants to do business studies, getting through the boring basics will be worth it. That is something you need to impress on him.

tbh he needed that while at school but since that ship has sailed, you need to get it through to him asap.

If he’s only got functional skills maths and English then he won’t be on a T Level course. You need 5 passes grade 5 for T levels.

Students who get gcse grades 1 or 2 don’t need to resit maths or English the government accepts that functional skills is the right qualification for them.

if a student. goes to college with gcse grades 1 or 2 they will be directed to a level 1 course.

they way for your son to progress isn’t to resit more GCSEs - this isn’t really offered anywhere except in a few special cases - eg kid had cancer during GCSEs - but to successfully pass a level 1 course and then the college will let him on a level 2 course.

if he then successfully passes a level 2 course they will let him on a level 3 course.

some students go straight to a level 2 course but in order to do that they need 4 GCSEs. His route - because he doesn’t have them - is to pass a level 1 course first.