To think that 4 G.C.S.E's needed to do business studies is ridiculous

[magicalmadmadamim]

My eldest DS is 16 and been at college since September. He has 2 G.C.S.E equivalent certificates in English and Maths.
I'm sure back when I was in college business studies was always a foundation course?
He really wanted to do business studies and they have put him on some really rubbish courses that he is super bored with.
Is it me or is education getting much harder now?
Hardly any of his school friends passed any g.c.s.e's :(

No, she's saying children from disadvantaged backgrounds who slip up are more easy to feel sympathy for than a middle class 16 year old who pissed about so seriously with his mates he was expelled just before his exams and couldn't even manage the bare minimum of 4 or 5 passes out of at least 8 courses.

You're minimising and excusing left right and centre and it's not going to help your son face up to his responsibilities.

Right. This makes it clearer to me.

I'm sorry, but you can't rely on what your son has told you. Even the 'nearly everyone failed' schtick rings alarm bells for me.

Given that you son is under 18, you should be able to contact the college yourself in order to glean more accurate information about course choice availability.

The college cannot change its course entry requirement for one student. You need to get hold of their Options Booklet/Course Choice Info (possibly available online) in order to have a better idea of what your son will be able to tackle.

I don't think that is what they are saying....sounds more like your son is a spoilt brat, whose had all their bad behaviour and laziness excused away by his parents.

But colleges and employers won't take that into account. They see someone with two low grade GCSEs and a documented history of messing around, who got kicked out of his last school, so the courses they will offer are to boost his tally to 5 GCSEs before he can hope to go on to anything else.

His best route really is to get his head down, pass the course he is already on, and PROVE he deserves better.

a Level 2 qualification is a step up from a L1 - and he has failed spectacularly to get the targeted 5 GCSEs minimum that most courses and employers require, so no, I think it is totally reasonable to ask for 4.

As other posters have suggested, he should consider redoing GCSEs and/or a vocational qualification - a friend of mine’s DS did this, after a spectacular fail, huge behavioural issues at his secondary (involving the police), but completely came into his own in a new 6th form college.

Am wondering why it has taken until now to ask, assuming he got his results in the summer? What has he been doing since? Kids are allowed to remain in education until 19, so this could have been a resit year with access to L2 or 3 BTEC qualifications over 2 years afterwards?

I'm a bit confused about what actual qualifications he has. Functional skills level 1 are only equivalent to GCSE 1-3 so not a pass and not regarded as a pass by most places. Level 2 is equivalent to GCSE 4+.

If this was a slip-up, it was a slip-up of several years. Missing 2 months of school, which included the exam period would only mean you totally failed your gcses if you were very behind to begin with.

He honestly sounds like he needs to pull his socks up. To do that badly in GCSEs, you've got to do really really badly in the exams.

He was so badly behaved he got expelled, it doesn't sound like his friends are any better so he's in with a bad crowd. Despite flunking his exams he somehow thinks his current course is beneath him. He sounds like he has an attitude problem, not the school being meanie pants!

He doesn't even want to try anything practical, which would be a good alternative where his academics are an issue.

During the last 2 months of term he attended a different school where he took the english and maths functional skills which we were told are GCSE equivalent and liked by employers.

As an employer we would much prefer that someone come to us with Functional Skills as it means they can enroll on a L2 apprenticeship and they don't have to spend 1 day per week studying for their Maths & English. So yes, that statement is correct in a way.

But that is for a trade based apprenticeship, not an academic college course.

My son was born on 28th August, so you can't get much later than that, but he got 12 GCSEs at grades 8 and 9 and then 3 As at A-level. He did this by working hard and not dicking around. Being summer born is absolutely NOT an excuse.

I think you are in a bit of denial of what hapenedwith his education and what is still happening.
Schoolsdont expel students on a whim, so it must have been a serious incident or a series of incidents with this being the latest.
Having a side hustle on social media does no tmake your son agreat investor nor businessman. I mean, good for him, but that does not mean he is the next Alan Sugar.
4 GCSEs is very low. Neither of the schools I have worked at would have offered him a Business Studies qualification, and dependingwhat they have on offer, maybe a Btech?
If hardly anyone passes GCSEs at his school... Yikes! Have you been supporting the school as a parent, or have you spent 5 years complaining they were useless, and you now found out?

GCSE grades 1 & 2 are the equivalent of grades E - G. So not anything an employer would accept. Even a 4 is borderline C-D. So a very low level scraped pass.

5 is the GCSE entry level pass.

Do you think that Mumsnet is only for parents with preschoolers?

I'm pretty sure huge numbers of us have teens or older and that we were even once teens ourselves. Of course we know what they are like but getting expelled and grades 1 and 2 at GCSE is not within the parameters of the vast majority imo

Academic qualifications aren't for everyone, maybe he needs to rethink his options

Clearly you have no idea whst constitutes SEN ,a grade 4 a standard grade equivalent to a C which outside of the world of mumsnst is a perfectly acceptable grade.

No, I'm saying that children from deprived backgrounds face a whole lot more challenges which may make it harder to get through GCSEs and could impact on their behaviour and make it harder for them to stay focused.

From what you've described, your son had no real challenges, he just couldn't be bothered to do the work. Even if he hadn't been expelled, that last few weeks wouldn't have saved fails across the board. At that point it's mostly independent study anyway.

Until he takes accountability for his behaviour things won't get better.

And yet colleges accept grade 4 s for most level 3 courses....

@magicalmadmadamim hi OP I am treading carefully here as you have had a few perhaps unfair comments. However, and I ask this kindly, how clued up on education in the UK are you? It is normal for students to need 4 or 5 passes at GCSE to progress onto the next level of education. Is that something you are aware of? Any college putting students on courses they don’t meet the GCSE spec for is setting them up for failure. For example if you want to do A level physics you’d need a high grade at GCSE to gain a place on the course. It is a difficult subject.

In your first post you said he has an interest in economics and investing. What do you mean by that. One of my adult children many years ago had the same interest. We sat down and looked at what they would need to do to get to what they saw as the ‘dream job’. That entailed excellent GCSE results which they achieved. Good and relevant A level subjects and a good degree. All achieved plus a Masters which was an add on they possibly didn’t require. Internships with several investment banks whilst at university and then a position secured where they wanted to be. Essentially their dream role. All of that required lots of sacrifices in terms of social life etc not to mention sheer hard work and tenacity to pursue internships-we did not have any contacts before anyone piles on.

I suppose what I am saying is if he has hopes and dreams they need some structure around them to make them happen. It’s not always about exam results BUT as someone upthread mentioned their son matured between school and college but doors were shut at higher levels because of poor GCSE results.

I hope it works out for your son.

A friend has a 31 Aug baby. He went to a bog standard comp and got top GCSEs and A levels. Straight to Oxbridge for a 4 year science degree - first class. Now doing a 5 year doctorate in the U.S.

my December born son is a bit of a coaster, my September son more of an academic (both got 10 gcses). It’s all anecdotal but I don’t think summer born makes that much difference to GCSE results.

I agree with you that he needs to see this through to open more doors for himself.

In the meantime he can still access business learning: almost all counties have certain libraries with business centres (BIPCs) that provide 1:1 support, mentoring, workshops, networking. Ask at your local library first and see what they suggest.

My husband is autistic, with ADHD and born at the tail end of August, he was definitely immature for his age (still is sometimes HA) and spent most of his year 10 and 11 in internal exclusion.

He still managed to get 10 GCSEs at 16 - this was in in the mid 2000s.

Statistically being a summer baby has an impact all the way up to 16 - but the way you have raised him should have helped him to over come that disadvantage. You don't seem to want to take responsibility for that at all - so his outcome is really not surprising at all.

*edit for spelling

They may not need it to join, they do need it and won't get promotion without it. They will have to do Level 1 and Level 2 Functional Skills, better to tick it off before they join.

YABVU

Good job we have colleges than for kids of all abilities and not just sixth forms at school with their very narrow expectations.

You need to be somewhat literate and numerate to do Business Studies.

I did business studies at college.
My course covered management accounting, marketing, business process management and management studies, presentaion skills, powerpoint etc. Also busines theory, different types of businesses, global economics and market factors and things like that
So a good grasp of maths, IT and english were essential.
They didnt cover anything around setting up a small business, tax, employment law etc. So it was not good for entrepreneurahip, it was more geared towards someone wanting to gain an entry level position in a large business and work their way up a corporate ladder.
Not sure what course your son is looking at but it is likely it isnt what he thinks.
I was disapointed as I thought business studies was about starting and running a business. Which it was not. It was about functions in a large business.

It’s the equivalent of 4 GCSEs. He only has 2 at foundation level.