'Taxes are the price we pay for a civilised society'

[Bargepole45]

Having just paid an enormous tax bill, I frankly am fed up with hearing this. There are lots of civilised countries that have a far lower tax burden than the UK. It's just a form of blackmail designed to make contributors believe that there is no other way other than to pay sky high taxes to subsidise people's crap life choices.

Have too many kids and can't afford them? No problem, the state steps in. Have a terrible lifestyle and don't look after your health at all? No problem, the NHS will treat you. Spent all your money with wild abandon and have nothing left to pay for your care when you get old? Don't fret, the state will fund the same care home as someone that has saved all their life.

Don't people understand that these 'safety nets' just facilitate reckless behaviour? We can have a civilised society where people aren't cushioned from all of their bad decision making. I say this as someone from a background where I didn't have much money and I am so fed up with people pretending that poor people don't know that an apple is healthier than a chocolate bar or that it's a good idea to actually attend school. It's insulting and disempowering to keep making excuses for people that simply aren't incentivised to make different, better choices.

Any job - abundance of low level jobs. if not prepared to do that family , savings, set up business. They need to solve their problems like everyone else

This claim requires data. You’re clearly passionate about this so I’m assuming you’ve researched whether the figures you’re using.

If you compare £125,000 to minimum wage, its easy to see the reward for the effort. But somone on that salary isnt comparing it to minimum wage, they are comparing it to the effort and reward level of earning 99,000 and making a decision if that promotion is worth it for them at that time.

As a low rate tax payer, i have declined overtime because it hasn't felt worth it. The extra effort hasn't felt enough gain after sorting extra child care. My personal allowance is all used up so the whole overtime is taxed. I dont see why high earners wouldn't make similar choices. They've less in incentive to work even harder as thier 99k probably affords a decent life anyway.

What I object to is in work benefits because employers don’t pay enough but still record massive profits/dividends

Irrelevant because the vast majority of workers aren't working for businesses making record/massive profits etc. The vast majority of workers work for the public sector, charity sector, or small/medium employers (who aren't making millions!).

"Only a tiny proportion of the population would be classed as unsuitable for any employment."

What happens to them?

Although I don't suppose you care as it will never be you because you are immune to happening to you.

There isn’t an abundance of jobs. I believe this thread has covered that.

There are many in the working class community that have no money to set up a business, no savings, and don’t come from a family that can financially support them.

If they genuinely cannot find work, would you be comfortable with them becoming homeless or hungry once your plan arrives at giving them nothing?

I think it would be a lot higher a proportion than a lot of privileged mumsnetters realise.

My home town has a population of 110,000 people, so quite a large town. 21% are long-term unemployed or have never worked. 51% are on out-of-work benefits (ten times the national average), and disability claims are three times the national average.

If you go on the government’s job vacancy website, there are currently 17 entry level positions (under £30k) in the town. If you expand the search area to cover the entire borough (population 330,000) there are 21 entry level jobs. Southerners won’t believe it but THERE ARE NO JOBS for these people.

There are numerous former industrial towns in the north of England in the same position.

They would be exempt but there would be a very high threshold.

.

I don’t think your figures are correct

In the UK, the private sector employs the vast majority of workers, while the public sector accounts for a smaller, generally declining share. As of late 2023–2025 data, roughly 81–82% of people work in the private sector, while approximately 17.5–18% are employed in the public sector.

and corporate profits have increased massively.

Yep, exactly.

My family are based in the North East, and my nephew has been out of work for almost 2 years. With every month that he doesn’t have work, his employment gap gets longer and he gets less desirable to an employer.

He applies for the few jobs that come up, has learned to drive, has been in numerous courses that would help him get specific jobs. Nothing.

He’s not workshy or lazy, there is absolutely nothing for him to do, despite real attempts to get work.

Yet in SE there are tens of thousands of immigrants fill these entry level jobs. They somehow manage to live with no access to public funds at all.
So how is this possible that (presumably young) nephew is funded by tax payer for two years instead of moving somewhere where there are jobs available?
Like you say, the longer the gap the lower the chance of employment.

This. We have young (and older) people many of whom are capable of taking on these jobs but don't want them. We don't need immigration for low skilled jobs - subject for another thread.

she said her nephew is in a post industrial town in the north east - you are talking about the south east…..

The problem I foresee for the next election is that inflation has pushed a lot of people into the 40% and 60% tax brackets. These are often uni educated people that Labour banks on for votes. But the tax system is pushing them Reform way. Labour already put VAT on school fees that knocks out 5% of those, and all these tax shifts are going to cost them votes. Uni students with accruing debt but no jobs are angry too. These start looking like a lot of negative votes.
That is why those on benefits who need them should think again what they are actually asking for. The system has to work for everyone in some sort of way.

Forgive me, but I think work should be available across the whole country and not just in the South.

You’re right, he could move to the SE for a low paid job. Taking out the fact he’s 20 years old and would have to move away from his whole family, he would also be moving out of his parental home and getting even more UC than he gets now, because the COL is higher and he’d receive both a housing element and top up that he doesn’t get now. That defeats the very object.

It would also make it harder for young people in the SE to find low paid work, if ours just moved there and took it. I’m assuming the parents of those young people would be thrilled.

What we need to do is stop being so South centric and make sure opportunities are available for people in other areas of the country, rather than expecting young people to trek the country begging for a job.

All true @SleeplessInWherever - but if you are totally honest, you also have to ask why the NE cannot do more for itself? Where is the get up and go? The SE has a lot of that. It is also why a lot of children on FSM from London end up doing very well. It is not something in the water. It is partly in attitude too.

No, it's the deadline to pay tax bills to HMRC. So this particular week, a tax bill of £50k is due.

"They would be exempt but there would be a very high threshold."

What would the threshold be for being classed as not able to work?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
Why immigrants can move continents, deal with another culture and frequently another language, but this nephew can't move within the same country?

"No, it's the deadline to pay tax bills to HMRC. So this particular week, a tax bill of £50k is due."

Surely that has been known about since last April.

It is probably also why they do not believe the SE kids are perfectly able to move to another country entirely, on a population level. And dismiss that as threats.
Or dismiss any threads as Reform. I think that is a little bit dangerous. I say that as a self defining Centrist. Do not lean left or right at all really. More pragmatic.

You're missing the bit about small and medium sized employer who employ a whopping 60% of private sector workers. These are the kinds of business that aren't making millions! So 60% of private sector plus around 20% public sector equates to a huge majority! Only a small minority of workers work for large private employers - the ones who are the huge firms making millions!