Seething

[ChangePrivacyQuestion]

Changed for privacy reasons, plus minor fact modifications.

I'd like to preface by saying this isn't about the money.

I'm one of 5 siblings. 4 of us did wellish, finished uni, working, married/to be married, 2 of us have 2 DC each. My DB (only son), however, is a typical (NON-SEN, it was thoroughly investigated) never-do-well. Still lives in the family home, failed GCSEs because he was caught cheating, on benefits (ostensibly due to bad back and IBS at 27, but no investigations ever yielded anything palpable), can't hold onto any relationships because he's an utter AH. He made all of our lives miserable growing up, always in trouble at school, screaming the house down if things didn't go his way, kicking off on our graduations and weddings because he wasn't in the centre of attention. You get the picture.

DPs are getting old now. DM has early stage dementia, DF is in a remission for a cancer that is bound to come back. The question of care keeps popping up with increasing frequency. Thing is, although the 4 of us are employed, 2 of us are under mortgage and childcare costs and 2 are renters and in the lower rungs of career. Meanwhile, the property our brother is sitting on is worth over a million pound, due to a central position in an expensive city in UK. My parents live in a tiny rural cottage my mother inherited (because they couldn'tput up with DB a day longer), but it's full of stairs, nooks and crannies and old-age unsuitable.

We tried to have an adult conversation to sell the city house to fund the care, but DB kicked off how we're dumping him on the street and how us who are working should pay for it and he keeps the house. The suggestion that he moves in and cares for DPs in lieu of rent, is, of course, unacceptable. DP, as always, cower in rather than confront DB.

I had enough, said either DB gets his $#/+ together, gets a job and a flat etc. or I'm not wasting another minute or penny putting up with this. I have a family, job and an early immunological problem already on my plate.

Trouble is, getting my other siblings to sing from the same sheet is another story. I feel like crap bailing out, but he ruined first 25 years of my life with his behaviour, and he's not getting a minute more.

I don’t understand why this is costing you money OP?

Unless the big city house is in your brother’s name, I don’t think this is as big a problem as you think it is OP.
The big city house is one of your parents’ assets, so it’s irrelevant what your brother wants.

Fair point. However without poa you would have no veto, and possibly very little influence, on where, when and how your parent(s) receive care. For example, they may be separated even if they could afford joint care. If that is important to you, poa is essential.

So your parents need to step in. They need to say they can’t live in the cottage, need to sell the house to buy somewhere so he gets the cottage

if they won’t thenI would be leaving them to it

Hopefully the will splits everything between you and your brother is in for a shock

I’m not qualified to give you a good answer, but from an objective stance, I think this is really your parents fight. I understand their old and less able now, but they’ve permitted this behaviour all your brothers life. This is their making which they should have handled decades ago.

It’s hard to watch but I really don’t think there’s anything you can do. Be the support and kindness to your parents, but know that this is beyond your control. Offer your help if they want him to move, but there’s nothing else to do.

Very hard and I can totally appreciate how frustrating it must be. Your brother sounds like a total twat.

The parents do not 'need to step in'. It's their choice, not OPs.

Like others are saying, stay out of it!!!. Your parents are adults and were of sound mind when they chose to move to a tiny cottage and leave your DB in charge of the million pound assessment that could secure half decent care in their latter years.
Yes it'll be a shit storm but leave it up to the authorities to sort out. If there are assets available to pay for care, then they will step in and drain them in no time, trust me! Your DB then needs to step up and house himself, finally.

What does your dad want to do? Does he want him and your mum to move? Does he want to stay put?

As far as I’m aware you would contact adult social care, they would come and do an assessment of your parents needs as well as a financial asseessmeng.
If you’re looking at carers, in my area you can have savings up to around £23000. If they have savings of anything above this they would be excepted to pay for care from the savings until they meet the £23k threshold. After this, depending on there income it could be that they just pay a contribution.
If they to go into a care home they would be expected to sell there home to pay for this however only if no one else was living in the property. I don’t believe they can force a sale and make someone homeless and as your brother has lived there many years they wouldn’t be able to force a sale.

There's very little you can do. Yes, you need POA, but if your parents refuse to grant you (or any of your siblings) permission, then you can't force it. I also don't think the relevant agencies can force the sale of your parents properties, to pay for care, either. They would be taken into account when a financial assessment is done. Have your parents made Wills? Unless your brother is inheriting the family home as per a Will, then he won't have a choice but to move out once your parents pass away, as it will need to be sold. Your parents haven't stood up to your brother so far, therefore I can't see it happening any time soon.

Sadly, I think you have no choice but to let the situation continue. By all means discuss a POA with them, but if they refuse, you have to step back.

1. Both parents will need care
2. Neither parent has much beyond the houses, the state pension and a small pension for my dad
3. Care costs more than that
4. Brother is refusing to move out of the big house so it can be sold to pay for carers; selling the cottage won't bring much at all
5. So me and my sisters either chip in or give up work to care for them - and I can't afford either

They’ll force a sale to pay for care 100%. Or if not
they’ll want the costs back when your parents pass (from the estate) so he’s delaying the inevitable. It’s also too late to transfer to him as would be seen as deprivation of assets etc.
Stop worrying and be honest with the social worker when they do come to assess.

So it’s not actually costing you money at the minute? And your parents aren’t asking you for money.

Doesn't matter what your brother is saying right now, that property belongs to your parents, so it will be taken into account as part of their assets.

Others have said a charge will be put over the property, but won't actually evict your brother. This is my understanding, but I have never had to investigate it so I don't definitely know.

It's not compulsory for you to contribute to their care costs, and neither do you have to give up work to care for them. I admire people who do this, but it doesn't always mean the patient receives the best care.

If you want to be involved in their final care, then move them in with you, but keep your job, and use your parents pension and savings to pay for private care, 3 or 4 visits a day, to do meals, take to toilet, change pads etc., to take the strain off you.

You won’t have to pay anything, the council will tell your parents to sell the house, if they can’t/wont then they will force a sale to recover the debt of the care costs, they will usually wait until after your parents have died to do this.

We are going through a similar situation where PILs have two houses that they refuse to sell, they are currently paying for their own care but when their savings run out the council will cover this and we will then have to repay out of the estate when they die.

I can't move them in with me, DH and I are in one room, DDs in the other, and you can't fit a single bed in the box room. DS2 is in a 2 bed property, DS3 and 4 rent.

OP you will not have to do anything. Take a step back and let it sort itself out because it will.

Care costs will need to be covered by the house(s) as needed. All you need to do is make it clear that you will not be providing care for your parents and they will need to go into care. That’s it - the system will force a resolution.

Then you giving up work to care for them isn't an option anyway.

Just let it play out as it stands.

At the moment you are working yourself up with what ifs and various hypothetical situations that can't happen anyway. Step away.

OP you don't have to do a thing. This will all get sorted when the time comes. They will have to pay for their care and if they own a house they will have to sell it. Stay out of it and let it run it's course.

Is there a will? Be careful if they feel DB will be homeless when they are gone they may leave the house he's living in to him. I know it's not always a good idea but could your parents get a lifetime mortgage on the house that doesn't have to be paid until they are gone? That would solve the care home fees and ensure the house has to be sold in the end so DB can't just stay there forever.

Obviously your db isn’t owed anything but could a cheap flat be bought for him out of the proceeds, meaning that he can’t use the “turfed onto the street” argument to block the sale?

Just to add, if your parents don’t sell the house and the council fund their care, this will only cover the most basic care costs. I would be advising them if they want a nice comfortable care home of their choosing then they should sell the house or release equity to pay for it.

My view is that your parent’s care needs have to come first. The house needs to be sold. If it gets to a point where social services are involved, they will expect the house to be sold to fund the care anyway.

If your DF needs care, the council will step in

100% this. All you have to do is say I won’t provide care.

As the pp has said you don’t need to sort this out. It will sort itself out.