American expats in Europe/the UK

[expatme]

Are you as horrified and embarrassed as I am?

Ok. Can one assume you are ok with the US administration?

Congress could choose to stop him at any moment. But as long as it's controlled by Republicans, it won't.

I guess take to the streets, donate to, and canvass for, good candidates, try to ensure the election is free and fair, bring lawsuits when appropriate. Other than impeachment and the 25th amendment (and hoping for a 'health event') there aren't any other real safeguards in the system. And in those instances, we'd end up with Vance, who is saner, but no better, imo.

I can’t believed how weak and spineless Americans are. Literally doing nothing, zilch! Well those in Minnesota are but the rest of the country sits back and does sfa.And then Newson who I thought had half a brain is berating European leaders for being spineless! Um have a look at your own countrymen first.

To be fair, the US system doesn't allow for the people to have very much say. It is nominally a democracy, and it is supposed to have 'checks and balances' but they don't seem to work very well. And I can see why many are afraid to protest, given the brutality even of normal police, let alone riot cops and ICE. I'm not saying it's right, but it's understandable and I don't think it's fair to blame the people.

Most Trump voters don’t travel

Though to be fair, Newsom did annoy me. Sort out your own house before criticising others.

I actually think, to give him the benefit of the doubt, he was trying to warn European leaders not to buckle the way American politicians have.

But, literally, what do you suggest we do? I know I feel utterly powerless.

Maybe so, but that poster did have a point. I don't blame ordinary Americans for this shitshow, but I do blame spineless government officials.

Seriously you’re asking the rest of the world what to do?

Well, yes. You're calling me spineless. What do you suggest we do?

I know a few Americans here in France who are clearly not Trump supporters.

I have many more actual friends back in the US who I know will have voted for him. What they think now, who knows. It could get awkward as we’ve invited a few to visit us in France! One was best man at our wedding and I have two American born dc.

For me here in France, if the subject comes up, I make it very clear to my new country people that I did not support or vote for Le Brexit.

Americans could march every Saturday, calling for change, the way pro-Palestinian activists marched here. It would at least be something. American expats could march outside their embassy. They could be louder telling the world they denounce abuse and corruption and support national sovereignty. They could show their support for Greenland by flying its flag from their homes and offices. They could utilise the tech that is essentially American and broadcast around the world their disgust for Trump. They could call for an immediate election as part of their protest.

But maybe they won’t. Maybe Americans are too wealthy, too comfortable or too used to the dysfunction we are seeing from Trump. I just wonder how far it will all go

What do you expect ordinary citizens to do, though? I could do fuck all about Brexit, and wouldn't have appreciated being blamed for it by some random French or German person. I don't blame everyday Russians for the war in Ukraine, either. 'The difference between me and my government is far greater than the difference between me and you'.

We don’t know how America
works. You do. Instead of wondering around as a nation collectively sticking your head in the sand and pulling up individual draw bridges wanting others to do all the dirty work it out for yourselves. You have an internet at your fingertips, basically you get out there and fight and you don’t give in to bullies and dictators . Why aren’t you marching, striking, protesting, boycotting- in your millions?

It was useful idiot pro-Palestinians who are partly responsible for Trump getting elected. They wouldn't vote for Kamala because they were more worried about what was going on in another country than what would happen in their own. The true definition of a luxury belief.

An irritating part of living in the UK as an American is how worked up Brits are about the US. Mumsnet is a hotbed but Brits in RL express this too.

On a personal note, I'll say that people who know me, know I didn't vote for Trump. If anyone starts it up, I always point that out: I had an absentee ballot and I used it, which is more than most Brits could do.

And if the interrogation continues, I'll ask the other person how they voted in the Brexit referendum or recent UK parliamentary elections and ask how they feel about that now ...

Meantime, whilst we're wringing our hands over Ukraine and worrying about China, the Arctic is actually a serious issue. It's been an issue for a while now, as the ice melts and new shipping routes open up, Russia is right there, looking at all the options and pushing the limits.

Ideally, all the western powers would be working together - should have been working together ages ago - to increase our presence in the Arctic b/c Putin has been planning, for a long time now (nay, acutally is) to 'come over the top'

Regarding ICE: intelligent, educated Americans are horrified. But as a UK citizen, what can you do right now if your lovely, but foreign, neighbour is being detained? Voting one way or another does not make any difference when your neighbour is in a detention centre tonight ...

And that is the final point: what could UK citizens do RIGHT NOW to change the UK government? Best I can tell, nowt! Liz Truss didn't last but that was b/c her fellow MPs didn't want her not because the general population did anything at all ... We're ALL passengers in cars

@Gahr

I think you missed the point… I’m not commenting on the subject of pro Palestine protests, I’m referring to the method of continuing to build a movement, remaining visible and having a voice heard.

Americans are smart, resourceful and many are rich. Hollywood, the world’s largest music industry, Silicon Valley - these American assets are immensely powerful. They could produce anti-Trump songs, films, content, media in addition to physical protest. They could display symbols. They could be louder, more visible and stronger.

As previous posters stated, Americans are more than capable of figuring out how to speak out and demand change.

I get your point but I’m not sure you can compare Trump with Johnson or even Farage.

There are a lot of marches in the US and people are turning out regularly. I've been to them when back in the US. I've been to the no kings march here, but not regularly to the embassy. I'm not sure of the power of flying a flag. Palestine, US, St George's. I don't find it much of a mind changer.

They could utilise the tech that is essentially American and broadcast around the world their disgust for Trump.
I mean, I think that's pretty much happening, don't you?

They could call for an immediate election as part of their protest.
That is completely incompatible with the political system and would be a pointless waste of time and effort. It would never happen.

And what does the interrogation do, surely if they don't like Trump and are scrutinising you over it they probably voted to Remain in Europe. Equally, you'd ask them how they voted in the General Election - for what purpose?

I'm not an American ex-pat but, every time I start to feel furious at America for inflicting this shit on the rest of us, I remember half of them didn't vote for him. But that means half did. So I think some rage is at those who are anti-Trump and didn't bother to vote. Same way Remain voters didn't bother to vote.

But, really, it's the sheepishness and cowardliness of the Republican party. Hate the Tories but they are at least brutal about removing leaders. America doesn't seem to have that process nor a functioning leader of the opposition for people to rally around.

I just want "normal" imperfect America back. I feel so sad about it.

Not really. Waving flags and shouting might feel good in the moment, but what does it actually achieve? It's tricky, and I'm not saying I have an answer, but when a government does not and to an extent cannot listen to its people, a few marches aren't going to make a difference.

For many, Trump's comments about WW2 really crossed the line today.

@StarlightRobot

Re. the Brits wouldn't put up with this. You know, being of the 'poll tax' generation, I might have agreed with this at one time. But, given how over a quarter of the public are walking, zombie-like, towards Farage et al., I sincerely worry that this could happen here.

Why do you think her colleagues got rid of her, you don't think they felt any pressure from the population to do so?

Well there is a lot of it going on. My point, which I think you're missing, is that things are happening, and people do what they can. March against Trump, march against ICE, donate, support good candidates, donate money, volunteer for good causes, speak out, file lawsuits, give their time pro bono to defend those unfairly accused of things and to fight illegal actions taken by the administration, oversee polling places, speak out on social media, support good media and journalism, boycott places, products (and, not popular on MN, but boycott X).

But at this moment, none of it seems to work. Thanks to gerrymandering and the Supreme Court and the electoral college, America is under a system of minority rule and there's fuck all that we can do about it at the moment.

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/public-policy-journal/in-print-2/volume-22-1-winter-2024/the-crisis-of-minority-rule-in-american-democracy/