To ask what type of children do better at private primaries?

[Helllooooooooo]

DD has just turned 4YO. She’s incredibly bright and switched on and stands out from her peers in terms of language, confidence and inquisitiveness (it’s an anonymous forum - I wouldn’t say this in real life!). She can write her name, count up to 100, do simple addition and subtraction, can read simple words etc. She can also be a bit of a performer and enjoys being the centre of attention.

I worry that she’ll be labelled as difficult at a state primary due to her chatting too much, joking around a lot and perhaps being the leader of group silly behaviour. I think that she’ll get bored if she isn’t pushed and will mess around.

I am presuming that this sort of behaviour will be nipped in the bud better at a private primary. She’ll be in a smaller class and I would imagine would be pushed more and set more difficult work?

I have no experience of schools yet - it would be great to hear of other people’s experiences with children with a similar personality.

My concern with the private school is that her spirit would be squashed. Whereas my concern with the state primary is that she’d be left to go rogue and not fulfil her potential 😆.

Oh I don’t disagree and I would never say this in real life. But DD is miles ahead of the toddlers her age at the groups we go to. A few other mums have pointed it out to me too (so I don’t think it’s just me being all PFB 😂).

Class sizes at the preps around here are 18. They are 30 at the state schools.

I’m just not sure that there’s any sweeping statement people can make about which will work best - it totally depends on your local schools and private schools vary hugely in their attitudes/facilities/class sizes etc. Of the 6 private primaries I know in my city I expect she’d do great at one, hate two, be labelled as difficult at one, and the other two would probably be fine.

So all you can really do is visit the schools, ask around locally, do any taster or assessment days they offer and see how it goes.

They don’t. Private schools don’t train their staff in Sen. And there is a serious lack of understanding and resources specifically for that child. Smaller classes yes. But not automatically will do better. Every extra is also expensed at the parents own cost rather than state funding

Im short, kids who are outliers. SENDs, very clever, or both.
My youngest is extremely academic (not gifted, but the high end of talented), but on the younger end in terms of maturity - if he is bored, he acts up. 1 teacher for 30+ kids is not able to provide for a child academically on year 8/9 level, and emotionally on year 3 level (he’s in year 4), and for the rest of the class.
My oldest is autistic, highly anxious and dyslexic- again clever, but he only learned to read in year 5. no problem with 3 teachers for 40 (plus 3 TAs), a massive problem for one teacher and 30+ kids!

State school teachers aren’t trained for SENDs either, and have 30+ children
No, private is not a guarantee, but the chances are much better (unless you choose an exam mill!).

Private school is a great option for kids that excel at sports and/or performing arts in families where parents both work and so after school clubs in different locations to school are hard. Obviously the right primary school has to be selected. Private wrap around care is also really good.

My kids went to a very small CofE village school with class sizes of 12-17 kids max. They all thrived there due to the small class sizes and great teachers who could really take their time with them. All in grammar schools now and doing very well due to the early years‘ foundation they received. If you can afford a private - go for it. Make sure you tour extensively and look on web forums to get a good look at“under the bonnet“ so to speak.

As @littleturtledove says, save your money for private secondary, then state sixth form as it is a good social experience before uni.

There is no reason to believe that a good state primary won't manage her behaviour whilst encouraging her best qualities, and give her challenging work, so start with state primary. (I believe it is also good socially to mix with children from all backgrounds whilst young.)
If necessary re-consider private primary for years 5 and 6, especially if your preferred private secondary is selective entry so she will need training/tutoring to pass the entrance exam.

Also, get her into a pre-school / nursery ASAP.

SEN children probably and then the rest depends on the school. The private schools around us are more for wannabe footballers. People with money to spend, but not very bright children who want to coast. The teaching is not good. But those mediocre kids can be carried a bit when you pay for it. In my own experience (R-6th form in private school), bad behaviour was definitely not nipped in the bud. 😂 It was tolerated with some deference depending on how rich your parents were. No one wants to crack down on little Bobby when Bobby’s dad is a big corporate donor to the endowment fund.

If she’s outgoing and clever, I’d definitely go for state school. It gives her a chance to be pushed socially outside a fishbowl and to figure out what sort of secondary you might consider.

You’re applying huge sweeping generalisations to private schools when the point of them is the huge difference between their approaches and ethos. We’ve had children at a mix of different state and private. A good private will always be better than a good state school simply because of the resource and facilities differences. State schools are so underresourced I honestly don’t think there is a ‘good’ one left because they simply can’t be. They’re trying to cope with huge classes and SEN kids who don’t have their needs met.

Kids do better in private primaries because all parents of those kids are very invested in education and achievement. In a state school not all pupils will have any support at home

This.

With one ND and one probably NT (but quiet, middle of the road, flying under the radar) child, I wouldn't hesitate to move mine to private school if we could afford it.

The one biggest thing government could do to help ALL children in school is to reduce class sizes.

Bear in mind private do push out difficult kids.
Your description of her could go either way.

Mine was pretty bright at 3. But at state school got into a lot of trouble asd/adhd.
And its a combination of teachers who want to do minimum (probably because just teaching such a range of kids is a lot).
sen system a mess lots of pushy parents with kids with extremely mild issues. So we’ve never had a meeting with senco in 10 years…

Aside from my dc issues it doesnt work for kids who like to get up to things. As school dont have the eyes on them and end in punishment.

its all so low effort.
From outside you wouldnt believe we never had homework marked at primary.
And now not at secondary either. Obviously even some tests marked by classmates which makes sense.

Ultimately state cant really exclude kids. They cant /wont(?) move severe sen kids to sen schools.

If i had another Nat kid and won the lottery i would say state wasnt too bad. There can be some impact on confidence.
But secondary has been a shitshow and is actively harmful to my dc. A lot of that is the other kids - bullying. Its the culture.
But i also dont like the homework lack of schedule. Its completely erratic. And often lots of deadlines fall on same day.
And i dont agree with only ever having end of topic tests and never any proper exams. I think it’s detrimental. As you arent having to revise several topics. The stress of tests and homework is constant every week rather than 2 weeks in summer.

Totally agree that quiet, overlooked, middle achieving children do much better in private that state as this is our experience to a tee! DC was ‘fine’ in state primary (class of 30, lots of loud, dominant personalities) but was gradually being turned off school. Now absolutely thriving in yr6 at private and loves school again.
Given what you describe @Helllooooooooo I’d try state but as long as you can afford it don’t be afraid to move if it’s mot working out

I think you might do better trying state first, and this is why:

• being an early reader/counter is often interpreted by parents as being evidence of a faster overall rate of progression which will continue. However it is actually often simply that that child has had the appropriate developmental leap relatively early, but then they might well "stall" (not actually stalling) and not have the next leap until a more average age. They might also have had a developmental leap in one area but be lagging in others (this is really common).
• If this child is ahead in reading/maths but needs more work to be at age-related expectations on social skills (quite possible if they are more likely to become loud/bossy/disruptive than the average) or other things such as physical skills, I think you are more likely to have that recognised and supported in state than in a private school chosen to be academically pushy.

Part of being in any school environment is learning to "squash" your own individual wants/personality a little for the benefit of the group, e.g. I can't always answer questions because the teacher needs to see other children learning. If your DD is a bit of a performer (no bad thing!) and hasn't been in nursery, whatever school she goes to will be a bit of a learning curve for her. I would be careful not to approach this as "squashing her spirit," or you're both in for a bit of a tricky time.

Agree with what PPs have said that differences between individual schools matter more than differences between types of school. Bluntly, there are private schools for rich, not academic kids that absolutely would not push your bright daughter. There are state schools in which large classes and lots of bright kids in those classes mean that the kids bring each other along (my DS's class has about 25% reading a year ahead, and being competitive means he works a bit harder!).

My experience has also been that reception at state primary schools are very hot on teaching children how to get along in the classroom (not always being the leader, working with others, knowing when its time to listen) in part because they know children come in at various levels. A private primary may assume all children have been through its/other nurseries and have higher expectations, which your DD might struggle with.

Do you mind me asking if your autistic son had a speech delay?

Would you consider sending her to a nursery part time so she can learn to listen, talk at the right time etc and not become ‘that’ DC at whatever school she goes to?

People always talk about 'private school' as if they're all the same.

OP, some private schools are money for old rope, frankly. Some are 'meh.' Some are really excellent and worth every penny. Our kids have experienced all types of 'private school.'

You have to visit individual independent schools. Where in the country are you?

For instance, if you're in London and want them prepared for the top London Day Schools at 7 plus, 11 plus or CE, then yes. Find a prep that does that because a state school won't, they just do SATS.

Whetr fi you want her to go for secondary? Some preps will feed into their own secondary schools. Others will not, but prepare them for competitive exams at 11 plus or 13 plus.

My DD is a quiet - middle of the road girl with SEN. She has flourished at her Prep school as she is noticed and seen as an individual. What I would say to you is the academic standard in comparison to our state school is very very high.

but what’s important is home environment, your values - I think your daughter will be fine.

Honestly she may be very different in school if she has never been..is there any way she can attend a preschool or nursery before Sept ? Social skills are so important in reception.. unless you have loads of money go to the good state school and keep your money for after schools/clubs. Maybe she will love drama? Don't worry too much for now they change so much at this age.

All kids benefit from better schools really, whether state or private. If a school is overstretched, a shy student might not be given the attention they need to thrive and develop their confidence. A high achieving student otoh might be left alone as they need to concentrate on bringing everyone up to average, and they might receive the wrong message and feel it's wrong to be overly enthusiastic as it's boastful or they need to give everyone a chance. (This is why I moved my DS to a different state school - at PT meetings they told me he could meet the basic requirements, and didn't understand why I was asking beyond that because the basic requirement was reached. They also didn't give him any special achievements or pick on him when he raised his hand because they were only invested in helping those who were struggling.)

But she’s 4. Of course she is miles ahead than toddlers, she must be twice their age!

What you describe sounds at the bright end of normal but not prodigy-level. A reasonable state primary should certainly be able to cope. Most do stream for maths and English, and there are certainly a couple of loudmouth confident girls in DS’s class and the teachers seem to keep them in check ok.

Of course go private if you like the private primaries better and can afford it, but it’s unlikely to be “necessary” academically.