Struggling to look MIL in the eye

[Bumblingbee92]

I used to think ‘not my business, staying well out of it’ but MIL is expecting us to take over therefore it is our/my business.

My DH has a brother with profound special needs and autism. He will always require 24/7 care and in some ways he’s mental capacity/needs are similar to a young toddler.

However, he’s 6ft tall, can be violent during his meltdowns and can be easily triggered/have to stick to his routines by to the minute.

Until DH met me he always thought he would take on Tom* but looking back, he was never really given the choice, but it was expected of him. DH had a different kind of childhood because of Tom (definitely the glass child/seen as another pair of hands to help with Tom) but he doesn’t hold it against his parents/he does genuinely love Tom.

When we met and got serious I asked DH how would it logistically work with caring for Tom and us having a family. It was the first time DH had ever really thought how it would work for him and his future family and decided that it wouldn’t be feasible/fair on our future kids/me at all. One of Tom’s triggers are children, if we were to hypothetically have Tom, it wouldn’t be in his best interests let alone our kids interest either.

DH sat his parents down and told them that he wouldn’t be prepared to be Tom’s full time carer. He would always ensure that Tom was well cared for but not in our home 24/7. All hell broke loose, PIL were disgusting to DH for months ‘for turning his back on his family’ etc and since it’s been the elephant in the room. If DH has tried to raise planning for Tom’s future he’ll get a comment like ‘we’ll just have to live forever’.

PIL are in their 70s and not in great health. I very much doubt both will still be here in 5 years especially as FIL health seems to be massively declining. MIL isn’t clueless, she’s on the board of a couple of panels/charities/runs special need support groups. She sees social services as evil and basically cuts off anyone who ‘sends their kid away’ - DH grew up surrounded by lots of other families in a similar boat, Tom is the only one to remain at home and MIL has fallen out with all of their parents.

MIL has made comments on how they’re going to leave everything to Tom (we’re fine with that) and that we’ll have to sort out getting 24/7 hour carers once they die. When DH has mentioned potentially getting Tom used to either staying away from home/having carers for longer than a couple of hours (they usually take him out) she deflects of ‘don’t you think we do a good job/don’t you think Tom deserves the best care from us’ and ‘I don’t want strangers in my house’.

I’m pretty low contact with MIL for various reasons but I can’t help but get more and more frustrated/annoyed/angry that her lack of planning is going to negatively impact my family. At the beginning she begged me to change DH mind/has said that she hopes that I’ll fall in love with Tom and refuse to send him away. I know that’s her plan, to do nothing and when it comes to her dying, in that moment we won’t make the emergency call to social to completely uproot BIL from everything he knows - poor man needs months to get used to the simplest routine change. Changing his complete world in an hour will be horrific for everyone involved. Our lives would be turned upside down if we did decided to take on Tom as we wouldn’t both be able to work/do ‘normal’ things as a family (no spontaneous plans, play dates, visit child centric places) and also, how would we guarantee/safeguard our kids from physical harm…

I said to DH that I’m tempted to put in a safeguarding concern to social to put this ridiculous car crash on their radar (I’ve got a feeling she’s telling everyone that we’re having Tom) but DH said that would be unforgivable. I feel like I’m becoming so frustrated/angry with MIL that I cannot be in the same room as her/don’t particularly want her around my kids when she’s happily setting them up to be abused.

What by asking how it was going to work with our plans of settling down and having kids? I didn’t preplan asking him to lead him to have deep meaningful questions with himself but more out of sheer curiosity. As far as I’m concerned, we are still going to look after him, just not full time in our home and that’s also how DH feels.

As you have suggested below, then I think that the planning you need to do would be preparation for the possibility that your DH may need to at least temporarily go look after his brother whilst a transition can be made to either bring carers in or move him to a home/supported living.

but then he also needs to factor in taking time to spend with his brother after this as he sounds like the only family he will have.

maybe your PIL will accept help when either one of them dies or becomes completely incapable of caring for Tom*. In the meantime being supportive of the PIL, suggest your hubby tries to work out potential finances with his parents.

regardless of whether you have his brother physically in your home or not, your husband will definitely need to carve time for him & be his support/advocate rather than sticking him away to rot cos you don’t want the hassle.

Your husband shouldn’t be piggy in the middle and forced to choose you or his family.

I think a lot of people who haven’t been directly involved in a situation like this can’t imagine the level of delusion/magical thinking from parents like these. My mother over the years said ‘he will die before me’, ‘maybe a nice lady will marry him’, ‘the cleaner says she will move in and look after him’, but mostly variations on ‘you’ll look after him’. My mum hated my brother mixing with other people with LDs so would be horrified now to see him happy and relaxed with people just like him in a care home.

I feel for your DH. He’s just got to let it stand now.

@LemaxObsessive
OP wasn’t manipulative. She just asked what would happen if DH became a father. It’s clearly not possible to look after young kids and a violent incontinent man under the same roof. It seems likely that one or both parents may pass in the next 10 years. Is it fair to expect DH to lock his kids in their bedrooms if his brother is on the rampage, to have a house that never has visitors? DH probably never considered that he needed his own life before, but that does not mean he has been manipulated. Surely it’a his parents who manipulated him by expecting him to sacrifice his own life to be a carer, as opposed to looking out for and visiting his brother?

Frankly, I wouldn’t marry a man who wanted to care for his autistic brother in law by living with him for life, so it would have to come up way before marriage. I’d obviously care for my own children if they were disabled in any way, but I wouldn’t choose to bring children into a situation in which there was a possibility of violence from an adult. And not having the possibility of having children (biological or adopted) would have been a deal breaker for me. That’s not selfish. It is just realistic.

Unless your PIL have lasting power of attorney (more like court of protection appointed deputyship in this case given his level of need) they don’t have legal rights to make health and welfare decisions for him. I would speak to social services to highlight him to them if nothing else but don’t ask to make a safeguarding referral as that would make things very awkward and it isn’t actually necessary at this stage

The ILs sound very much in denial but I don't think you can force them to do anything (nor they you) and SS won't do anything at this point. Things will likely shift when one of them dies (as a PP said you have to let the crisis or crises happen) but I think until then you have to try and forget about it, unless of course they keep bringing it up with you.

Are you and DH definitely united on this or are you concerned that when FIL dies MIL will go in for some even heavier emotional blackmail and DH will crack?

What?

Did she hold him at gunpoint?

I think he wanted children of his own!

But you’re missing the point.

I think it would better for DB to go into residential care but it’s not up to me, nor is it up to you or DH.

You say DH said it when he was 8 but presumably you didn’t get into a relationship with an 8yo and so his stance on being DBs carer was set - until he met you.
Then as you admit, very early on in your relationship you both thought it would be appropriate to tell PIL that DH has completely changed his mind and then wonder why it caused issues.

DH is well aware that his parents do not want DB going into a home, so why think this is a good idea to bring up.

Did you honestly think you were going to come on the scene and the PIL were going to put DB into a home when his whole life they have refused?

If not, then why was this conversation not had in the future when FIL had died.

Why does DH not just encourage a carer to come in and help?

DH does not need to tell his parents anything apart from that he will make sure DS is taken care of.
Why give his parents the worry.

When FIL dies he can then suggest respite etc to his mum.
You don’t go from promising you’ll look after him to refusing, especially when he knows how they feel.

because this is going to be massively unkind to the disabled man. Basically this no plan plan means that the poor man is going to have to deal with the illness/ loss of one or both parents and his home and moving to a new home with no preparation or acclimatisation at all. This is not just going to be horrendous for the client, its going to be dangerous for his new carers.

Sorry I was replying to the PP. They said she had manipulated into not taking his brother. I was pointing out the ridiculousness. Sorry was distracted.

You need to have a conversation now about what will happen in future.

My stepdad, he has a brother with schizophrenia but he’s able to live by himself with support from his 3 brothers.

My neighbour, she has an on the spectrum autistic son who now lives in a flat and is independent but his rent is paid by SS and neighbour has no idea what will happen when she dies. She has a daughter but relations are strained between brother and sister and her ex husband (father of the children) probably wouldn’t take him on. His sister wouldn’t and shouldn’t be expected to take care of her brother.

I am sorry for whatever happened to you that made you think a post like this is appropriate.

It’s hard to take your post in good faith though, as surely somebody genuinely compassionate towards Tom in this situation, would also be compassionate towards the OP and her husband too?

I haven’t read everything but surely the sensible thing is that he needs to find accommodation now while his parents are alive.
Maybe something like a Camphill community or similar. How shortsighted of your in-laws.

I agree but you can’t go from 0-100.

Instead of dropping the bombshell that DH is no longer going to care for his brother, why not encourage a carer.

Once they’re comfortable with a carer then he can encourage respite and then eventually a home.

DB still doesn’t have any plans put in place and everything has been made worse, which I’m not surprised about.

Oh goodness, haha, are you a man? Manipulated him into having children? Hilarious!

You say DH said it when he was 8 but presumably you didn’t get into a relationship with an 8yo and so his stance on being DBs carer was set - until he met you

You think a child who says something at age 8 is setting a stance for life?

I think there’s something more being missed here.
How the DPs are feeling about themselves and their competency in effect this had on the situation.
They’re getting very much older, one is already in poor health, they're probably very much worrying about themselves and their competency in caring for Tom as they used to. They desperately don’t want to let him go because that would mean admitting to themselves that they’re not who they were and time has passed, relentlessly. By not making any care provision for Tom they avoid facing up to their own increasing frailty because they can do perfectly well, thankyou very much, and they took for granted that the OP’s husband was their fallback. Don’t have to think about it at all then, do you? Everything’s fine and dandy.
It’s not though, is it?
Years of burying heads in the sand and possibly a deep, personal guilt.
I notice some have suggested pretty much just letting things slide, I don’t think you can do that. Situations like this can’t be left till they become a crisis, that’s too traumatic for everybody involved, but it needs to be broached very, very carefully and in a way that doesn’t make the DPs feel like they’re old and failing. It’ll be hard but I think it’s important to work on it.

I have 2 boys with asd and a third without. I’ve always made it clear to the third that his life is his for living and I absolutely expect him NOT to take on their care. I’d love it if they had a friendship but not one of carer.

I think you maybe need to try a different approach with PIL. Point out that Tom cannot deal with children. Point out that as you have children of your own, they must be safe in their own house and that would not happen with Tom in the house. I would point out that as FIL has been a dedicated father to Tom, it is unfair to expect your DH to be anything less than a dedicated father to his children and therefore could not essentially move in with Tom if something were to happen to PIL. Also point out the safety aspects for MIL if FIL gets ill or dies first - Tom does not go to bed for MIL. Tom gets violent if there is a change of circumstances which the death of a parent would very much be. How would MIL cope in those circumstances? What are her expectations in those circumstances of DH? Point out that it would be better to get ahead of that curve by starting to loosen parents grip on Tom by introducing respite days so that Tom goes elsewhere and starts to have a varied routine - better that he learns to cope with change now than have it thrust upon him because both parents die. Also recommend to his parents that they have a trust put in their will to deal with Tom's inheritance so that his benefits aren't affected and it can be utilised to keep Tom at home with care to give him the best life possible. Also I assume that they have guardianship/deputy ship for Tom - that needs to be expanded to include your DH as if anything happens to your PIL, DH won't be able to make any decisions about Tom or his care or his finances - difficult conversations but they need to be had. Good luck - this is a really difficult situation.

When one parent goes and only one is left to care for Tom, they will re-evaluate their situation. Tom is not his brothers responsibilty. As harsh as that sounds..that's the reality.

This is a more succinct and accurate reply than the one I was typing!

DH thought it was dishonest to not tell his parents that his intentions to be a full-time carer had changed. The first thing his parents said was that they had to change their will to reflect that (imagine DH had inherited his parents full estate as they believed that he’d be caring for BIL full-time).

DH didn’t tell PIL what care they needed to organise for BIL just that he was prepared to be a guardian of sorts, have BIl over for Xmas/take him on holiday/days out/make sure that he’s cared for well, just that he wouldn’t be in a position to care for him full-time.

This also happened around the time DH decided to move away from his hometown. His parents always made it clear that he had to stay in the nearby area/within the borough for funding purposes. They were also questioning a lot of our decisions as they wouldn’t be suitable for BIL (like when I’d be rehoming my dog).

BIL has always had carers, just that they don’t spend much time in the house but take him out. He’s never had a carer do certain duties like showering/getting dressed/bedtime, just mainly take him out for walks or out to groups/centres.

I'd divorce my DH before I'd rehome my dog.

I think this quite privileged though. My SIL & DH had to become a carer for DHs sibling. They lived in a country where there is no social security system at all. Who else could’ve cared for them?

No of course not but OP said he only changed his mind after they met and they discussed it.

Therefore he had this stance his entire adulthood until he met OP.

It’s fine to change your mind but the parents had also known this was his stance.

Why drop such a massive bombshell, especially so soon after meeting OP.

DH could have easily said I want to start a family but I’m concerned if anything happens to you or dad the other one would struggle on their own, so I’d feel more comfortable having a carer help.

Why go from saying that he’ll definitely look after DB to his parents his entire life, to no I won’t he’ll have you be put in a home, knowing how they feel.