To think there shouldn't be a right to *protest*

[Bathingnow]

People constantly repeat that the right to protest is some kind of sacred democratic principle that must be protected at all costs. I genuinely do not understand why this is taken as an unquestionable truth. What about the rights of everyone else? What about the right to go to work, get children to school, attend hospital appointments, or simply go about daily life without being obstructed, shouted at, or intimidated?

I fully support the right to dissent. People should be able to express views that challenge the government, corporations, or any other powerful body. That is a basic part of a free society. Free expression means being allowed to say unpopular things without fear of punishment. It does not mean having a free pass to disrupt other people’s lives or hold them hostage to your cause.

If you believe for example climate change is an emergency and the government should “just stop oil”, fine. Argue your case. Write letters to newspapers. Lobby MPs. Stand in Speaker’s Corner and shout yourself hoarse. Post endlessly on social media. Organise debates, whatever. All of that is legitimate and entirely compatible with democracy. None of it requires blocking roads, gluing yourself to infrastructure, or preventing ordinary people from getting where they need to be.

The idea that making life miserable for strangers somehow advances your cause is absurd. Blocking an ambulance, stopping a parent getting to work, or preventing someone from attending a funeral does not win hearts and minds. It just creates resentment. You are not enlightening people. You are inconveniencing them and expecting applause for it.

This applies to every issue, whether it is climate change, Gaza, housing, or anything else. A cause does not become morally superior simply because the people shouting about it feel very strongly. Once a protest crosses the line into infringing on other people’s civil liberties, it stops being a protest and starts being coercion.

Democracy should protect free speech and peaceful expression. It should also protect the public from disruption imposed by self appointed activists who believe their views trump everyone else’s rights. If exercising a so called right to protest requires trampling over the freedoms of others, then that right needs serious limits. I see no reason why the ability to disrupt daily life should be treated as some untouchable democratic virtue.

They are not, there are laws about how they should behave whilst protesting that does not change their right to protest

What are the current protest laws in the UK?
An individual’s right to freedom of expression and assembly are protected by Articles 10 and 11 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which is enshrined in UK law. Together, the Articles safeguard the right to peaceful protest. However, these rights are not absolute, and the state can implement laws that restrict the right to protest to maintain public order or to protect the rights and freedoms of others.
In the UK, several pieces of legislation provide a framework for the policing of protests. The Public Order Act 1986 provides the police with powers to place restrictions and conditions on protests. These powers were strengthened by part 3 of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022.
The Public Order Act 2023 established several protest-related criminal offences, including causing serious disruption by ‘locking on’ (attaching oneself to another person, an object or to land), serious disruption by tunnelling underground, obstructing major transport works and interfering with key national infrastructure.
There are several other criminal offences that could apply to a person’s conduct during a protest, despite not being offences that are specific to protests. These include wilful obstruction of a highway, public nuisance, and aggravated trespass.

People are often protesting to change the law.

Why, is it making you feel bad that you never get out anywhere with your DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING placard?

This 😉 😀

The inconvenience it causes to others is kind of the point. Similar to going on strike.

YABU

It's partly why voting rights got extended to working men in UK.
It's partly why women got the vote in UK.
It's partly why trade unions and working rights exists and we're not in the shit place american workers are in UK.
It's partly why the poll tax which was crippling my parents when I was young went away.

I do feel though that since New Labour - and the big stop the war or going into IRAQ protests even big ones are just getting ignored - some even not covered.

I've been round country for uni vsists last few years and we seen loads of peaceful Gaza protests - I only see them on news when they turn bad - they seem pointless longer they go on I can't see they've had any effect.

The endless reinventing themsleves loose coalition behind “just stop oil" with poorly thought though aims have felt more like a cynical attempt to turn the population against the supposed causes and even against protest itself.

I think it a sign of how disconnected population increasingly feel from poltical class - yet another example of how people's concerns are being ignored.

Better policed perhaps - less tolerated but done away with that may be short term poltically nice for the government in power and long term leathal to both democracy and wider society.

Ah see, I was listening to you then, when you put “bandwagon” it diminishes your argument.

I think the assumption that those in charge are largely working in our interests is naive, if you look at the history of civil rights, from rights for the working classes, women, those who want religious freedom and the rights of minority ethnic groups, nothing of substance was won by writing letters. The right for peaceful direct action and protest is fundamental in a democracy.

I am taking bets on when the OP returns to strengthen their point, I suspect they won't as this was written by AI.

I am that cynical that I believe it could even be a Russian chat bot

I disagree OP.

Workers, e.g. doctors, need to voice their dissatisfaction with pay/conditions. If they don't, in a few years no-one will want to be a doctor in the UK, we will have even greater GP shortages, and we all suffer.

The same with nurses, teachers, fire service. They are the subject experts and we need them to say so (tell us) when things are becoming unacceptable.

writing letters and attending debates isn't what earned women the right to vote though really is it.

How else would we have removed the Community Charge without the protest?

I think you’re entirely missing the point, OP.

First of all, affecting economic productivity and inconveniencing people is often the only way protesters can get airtime or create change.

Second, in the case of Just Stop Oil, the inconvenience is the point. The protesters genuinely believe that their cause - which they believe to be helping protect the future of humanity - is more important than a few hours of inconvenience to some. The future of Bob’s minimum wage job, or his kids’ futures, aren’t good if we’ve cooked the planet.

And although I’d hate to be inconvenienced, of course, environmentally speaking it does seem they’re right. I can’t think about the future too much, but it does seem we are sleepwalking into environmental catastrophe that we’re able to ignore because it hasn’t affected us that much, yet.

I do honestly wonder what life will look like for DD and think that a lot of protestors - from the suffragettes to climate activists today - have so much courage. I try to do my bit as I work in education, but it’s not nearly enough.

She sounds incredible.

This.

And the law isn’t always “right” either. It’s such a cliche so I’m loathed to say it but if Emmeline Pankhurst had stuck to writing strongly worded letters and not inconveniencing anyone she probably wouldn’t have got that far.

OP if you don’t like protests where do you stand on strikes? What other power do you think the average person can leverage to bring about any significant change? Because there’s only so much a petition can do.

Did writing letters to MPs help the Suffrage movement?

What, you mean those socialist worker flagged farmers blocking ambulances with their tractors in central London - those protests ?

Surely that’s the point of it!! To cause inconvenience for maximum impact!

Again, the Suffrage movement.

Would you include the farmers and the countryside Alliance in that?

In my town it's a bandwagon. Same old faces at everything. No matter what it is.

If exercising a so called right to protest requires trampling over the freedoms of others, then that right needs serious limits.

OMG

Is there a concerted effort on Mumsnet to undermine basic democratic rights at the moment? Aaron Banks style? Or maybe someone is trying to do their politics homework. Not sure but in any case, Op, YABU. HTH.

I think most people believe that protest should be allowed in a democracy.

However, there is a huge grey area as regards what people consider to be acceptable forms of protest and I suspect most people believe there is a limit to how far protests should be allowed to go in terms of their level of disruption and risk they pose to the security of the general public.

It's possible for people to pose huge amounts of danger to the public in general in the name of protest and it is generally unclear where protest turns into terrorism.

That's really pretty much it. We live in a society where protest is generally allowed, but there are limits in how far it can be taken without posing serious security risks and suffering serious consequences as a result.

I think most people if they thought clearly of the consequences of certain radical protest understand there need to be limits on how far protest can be taken.

Unfortunately "how far" very much depends on the individual.

If all you are allowed to do is write blogs and stand on speakers corner your reach will be limited.

I am all for visible, peaceful, non disruptive protest. You can be seen without blocking roads.

I have no problem with people protesting, but they shouldn't be blocking people's ability to get by them or intimidating passers-by or the people who happen to live where they choose to protest. They should be respectful of the people around them, and unfortunately, some protesters are not.