AIBU to think if you're a net negative in tax you shouldn't be able to vote?

[SBGM247]

Trigger warning: strong political views / rant incoming. A shrinking group is expected to fund an expanding system. The system increasingly penalises work while rewarding dependency.

AIBU to think the modern state is a parasite, and that only those who are a net positive in taxes should be able to vote, rather than forcing working people to support an ever-growing dependent class?

Currently ~21% of working-age adults are economically inactive, meaning not working and not actively seeking work (according to a research brief from the House of Commons). Democracy is broken if voters can vote themselves benefits paid for by others. Representation should be weighted toward those with demonstrable responsibility and contribution.

Currently, the state is extractive and hollowing out the middle class. As anyone that has the eyes to see and ears to hear will know, dependency is rising and and demographics are changing at a rate not seen outside of wartime.

To address this simply, I think if you’re on benefits you should lose the right to vote until you’re a net positive. That would restore equilibrium.

This is essentially Chesterton’s test of a society.

"An honest man falls in love with an honest woman. He wishes, therefore, to marry her, to be the father of her children, to secure her and himself. All systems of government should be tested by whether he can do this.

If any system, feudal, servile, or barbaric, does in fact give him enough land, work, or security that he can do it, there is the essence of liberty and justice.

If any system, Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrat, Green, Reform, or technocratic, does in fact give him wages so low and conditions so insecure that he cannot do it, there is the essence of tyranny and shame."

If the state could stop turning people into dependents that working people have to pay for, that would be great. The state is bloated, fixated on wealth redistribution rather than wealth creation, and actively working against the people it is meant to represent. It is incapable of creating the conditions for wealth, stability, and independence. This is managed decline, and we need some adults in the room who have read a book. AIBU?

If you read this thread you'll see I'm replying in real-time.

What incentives are these?

No. You just enjoy being unpleasant and have people run around justifying their lives and vulnerability. How miserable you must make any others unfortunate enough to encounter you in real life

And yet we both know that your initial rant was not written by you.

You can talk about what you like, but a man on a women's discussion forum, shit stirring? Maybe not.

To build up a political base by offering free stuff and making people dependent on you. I lived in a deprived area and people were institutionalized for want of a better word, in the benefit system. That I got out of it was a miracle really.

Right, so that tracks my income tax and NI. Possibly also could pick up my council tax and any SDLT if I move house. Maybe even ties in the negatives from use of the NHS.

But where do I send all my receipts in so I can claim my “credit” for all the VAT I’ve paid on anything I’ve bought, the fuel duty on my petrol, the APD on my flights? Do I submit my Tesco receipts weekly or annually? Do I have to highlight the line items where I’ve bought Coca Cola so I can have the sugar tax applied to my balance? Oh god, what happens when I re-use a carrier bag, do I have to have 10p deducted from my running total?

Anyway, I’d be in credit personally. I’m very lucky: I went to a private school, never even had to have a student loan, I have the fabled Mumsnet six figure salary on which I pay a shitload of tax, I’ve been blessed with excellent health so far (and private healthcare and dentistry for the times I’ve needed it) and I don’t even have kids to be using other public services. So honestly I think by your metrics I’m seriously up so far. But I don’t want to waste that if I die tomorrow! Can I put it in my will to leave to my niece so she’s well set up with voting credit for life?

Perhaps the wealthy with excess voting credit could set up some kind of fund to share this bounty with those less fortunate… perhaps even… some kind of benefits system??

It was written by me.

so whats your solution for men who don't pay a decent amount of child support when they are fed up with playing happy families?

Well, earlier I suggested we give kids a blank slate from 18 so everything is free before that. Will that work for her?

I'll have an island we drop them off on and every month we'll airdrop supplies. They can fight it out and they'll be removed from the gene pool.

In this dystopian, survival of the richest world, why should pensioners be exempt? They are definitely the largest consumers of NHS resources while paying very little tax and no National Insurance.

OP sounds like Ayn Rand and I completely disagree with her.

It's a maths question. Lifetime contributions net positive? They get to vote. At the point they're taking more than they gave (we can work it out in terms of inflation) then they lose the right.

I'm an atheist so you can save your prayers.

And frankly, even a single "point" from someone as morally bankrupt as you seem to be would be a source of shame.

Not just the initial one

No it wasn't. The rhetorical flourishes, cascading rhythm and word-salad content are all absolutely classic indicators of ChatGPT. Only a person who had never read anything other than LinkedIn posts in their life would write like that. And the fact that the tone and quality of your subsequent posts is very different to your first just proves the point.

When you're clever and dedicated enough to write your own content you'll deserve to be debated, but not before.

Review timestamps if in any doubt.

You sound like an expert. Very credible. I'll let the poll decide.

I prefer to use the term "getting paid" rather than "earning" generally.

I've met a fair few absolute weapons on high salaries contributing nothing to humanity...an observation completely unrelated to this thread of course

Over your lifetime? I’m assuming that this would be an ex ante „guesstimate“. Seeing as ex post would mean after one‘s lifetime. Voting after one’s lifetime is quite obviously impossible (dead people simply can’t vote…) so you’d end up with nobody having the right to vote. A quick way to abolish democracy, I suppose….

So let’s take the ex ante approach. How will you judge if an 18yo is likely to be a net positive tax payer over their lifetime…? Will you deduct points for those choosing to major in art history? Will you add points if they have rich parents and are therefore likely to pay inheritance tax at some point in the future?

What's with the sarcastic "flower" reactions that you have added to this post of mine, OP? I don't need your sympathy or support, thanks.

From the age of 18 you have the right to vote. You will be contributing from the point you earn. if you become net negative you will lose the right to vote. That's the basic idea. Will prob need some details working out but there you have the intent.

What about gay couples with kids? Are they also to be treated as a family unit?

Christ l know.

Get to fuck with them🤮

Let's not discriminate.