Excluded by friends with children, unsure where to go from here

[AmpleHedgehog]

Whilst I'm sure it isn't malicious, I've just found out that out of our friendship group the other friends all meet up and have a separate group chat because they have children.
There is another friend who's childless but she isn't really interested in the group and never suggests meeting up. The difference is that I suggest meeting one on one, groups, I am always willing to go to soft plays, travel to them etc. I always go out of my way.

I am engaged and would like children in the next couple of years. The only suggestion is to join clubs to make friends, and I do get this but it's not a guarantee. I work 9-5 hours then have an evening job twice a week to help me repay my debt, then I have a driving lesson, have a pet, clean our home and I make all my food from scratch which can be time consuming though worth it.

I know it sounds like I'm making excuses but it is tricky. Some groups are also very selective and will not allow you into their clique.

I am 35 years old and just feel a bit lost and excluded.

Nothing in your posts has indicated why you might fear this. Aren’t you catastrophising a bit here?

Maybe theyre meeting up so kids can socialise together?

I had made good friends with 2 mums from DD primary, we met up with kids maybe once or twice a month. We met up as just adults about once every 3-6 months. We had a 3 person whatsapp and spoke about all sorts in life.

Now the kids are in secondary they don't ever want to meet! Its like my purpose was to bring my children as entertainment for their children. We still talk in whatsapp but they dont seem interested in meeting up anymore. I feel really sad because I thought the friendship was genuine friendship. And a little pissed off ive been used? The whatsapp still pings regularly, but it just feels like an odd pen pal thing without actually seeing eachother.

Point being - it might not be that they dont want to see you... you just cant bring a child entertainer with you yet.

I find it difficult to arrange to go out as I work and have a toddler. When I’m 37, my child will be in Year 6 so I probably wouldn’t meet up with you either if you had a child at 37 because babies and primary aged children are obviously very different. I’d just find new friends if I was you.

Each to their own I guess, but it sounds like none of you like each other. Why spend any time with them? If you enjoy the company of parents much more I can't understand why you wouldn't just socialise with them (with and without your respective children). Unless all you have in common is your children. Which would be depressing.

Oh god, please tell me this is satire...

Did you know, you don't have to make your whole identify about your children? Do you think dads are ditching life-long friends and chucking five a side because the other guys don't have children around the same age as their child?

If my child was in Year 6 then I’d probably spend time with women with older children or no children. Mainly because I wouldn’t be going to places that are more suited for babies and toddlers. You also don’t know the meaning of satire.

Over the years I put in a lot of money and effort for their hens, weddings, baby showers and so on. I just don't know if they'll do the same for me now.

Have you been to soft play with small children before, OP? I think you’re envisioning a lot more chance to catch up than you’d actually have in reality. If I go to soft play with a friend with a small child, we barely get to catch up. Either they’re in the soft play with the little one entertaining them and not able to hold a proper conversation, or we’re at the table and they’re occupied feeding them, going to change them, trying to make them sleep etc. I try and avoid these outings tbh, and that’s with me being a parent who has been there and fully understands.

I have a 4 year old who can run off without needing my interaction all the time now. We could have a great coffee catch up. But my son still comes back to the table for food, a drink, to tell a tale on someone etc and we don’t do mealtimes with screens so if we’re eating lunch then he will expect some level of attention.

I have met them in a soft play, I arranged it all, but if I don't contact them I will never see or speak to them,I didn't see them for 8 months.

I think it’s time to let them go.

That sucks. Were they actually good friends before?

I think you're right to let it go now. You'll make new friends. My social life has fluctuated over the years and in quieter times I make the most of colleagues for social interactions - not necessarily out of work hours, but so I don't go mad!

It does hurt when people we feel close to don't reciprocate.

Because people exist only for your convenience and entertainment? Where do you plan to find these women with older children or no children when your child is in Year 6? Why do you think a woman with older children would want to hang out with someone with a 10 year old? What if the woman with no children gets pregnant? Etc

Also, satire - the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticise people's stupidity or vices. I know the meaning just fine.

Are you ok? You sound unwell.

Ah the classic MN zinger. Head tilt. Did you mean to be so rude?

I'm not going to reply to you any more, but just so you know, that's a bit close to gaslighting and you're out of order.

Children take over your life, and become the only topic of conversation. Until you have one, you're well out of it.

Not everyone is like that though. My friends with kids are well rounded people with good conversational skills and varied interests. They do not only talk about their children. That goes for both the men and the women.

Sometimes they talk about their children/schools/teachers. I actually find that chat quite interesting and often have a lot to say as someone who works with kids. However thankfully they have other things to discuss too ,because too much of one thing for every conversation is usually rather dull!

A lot of the time the conversation is about travel, work, hobbies/recent social events, politics, books, sports, movies and random funny stories. Or they mention other family members (in-laws, siblings, parents) and of course romantic relationships.

And I have seen plenty of parents on MN say they actively don’t like talking about kid stuff with friends.

This is a good point. So not only are they not true friends to OP, these parents friends may not be even genuine friends with each other if their friendship is based purely on their kids being around the same age or attending the same school.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with “friendships” like that, as such as long as each party is aware of how superficial/temporary the connection is.

It’s a bit like “work friends” , some of my closest friends are from current and former jobs. However it’s fine to have people you’re just friends with based on the fact you’re in the same office.

The problem is when one person isn’t aware the friendship has no real substance and that if circumstances change - their child moves school or they leave their job - it will be over.

I’m so sorry your friends have behaved like this. You sound very caring and thoughtful, a good friend… it must be very hurtful.

I thing WhatsApp groups can be very excluding things - what probably happened is that one person set up a group at one point to do something baby-based (excluding you with the assumption you wouldn’t be interested) and the group just carried on as the ‘baby stuff’ group. As their lives are dominated by their kids, they’re not even thinking about how you feel about it.

I have a friendship WhatsApp group where new groups sometimes get set up to do various things - like a group for a concert night out. Then everyone starts chatting about other stuff on the new group and anyone not on it gets left out! This has happened several times.

It’s true you do become a bit tunnel-vision when you have kids, it takes up so much head space. But if these people were formerly close friends, I’m sure they’d be horrified to know the impact this has had on you? Could you arrange a meet-up with just one of them and explain how you feel? I’d say you have nothing to lose at this point.

Honestly just text into the WhatsApp group you’re in and say you’d like to meet up/ you’re lonely/ you want to see the kids.

I don’t agree with ‘wait until you have a baby yourself’. I was the first of my group with a baby, I had two friends that stand out because they’d come and play with the kids. Saying that when the rest had babies the WhatsApp was full of the best places to take the babies/ toddlers/ what was happening with food/ toilet training etc and I had nothing to add as I was well out of that stage so my answers were generally ‘that sounds cool!’ so I’d have understood in a way if they’d started another WhatsApp group!!

How awful if thats the case with your friends Kids were the last thing i wabted to talk about when socializing. It was my time off from them

You make it sound like you’d assume that childcare would be a made up excuse. If their children are young (which I assume they are given your age, and that you mention soft play), childcare can be a problem, especially if it’s needed late into the evening, or overnight if your wedding is further away.

Absolutely don’t invite children to the wedding if you don’t want to, I think that’s completely fine. But you can’t do that and then also get annoyed if people have childcare difficulties.

Because they're a good laugh and we do have fun on a night out. Not every friendship needs to be deep and meaningful and the way I see it, relationships change over time. My life is different to theirs now I have kids, they have zero interest in it, I can't go around pretending I have no kids, but everyone enjoys the ocasional night out.

Meet in the middle.

How did you get into this friend group? Use Meetup to find new friends.

Is this a group of actual friends who started a group? How many people are in the group?