Excluded by friends with children, unsure where to go from here

[AmpleHedgehog]

Whilst I'm sure it isn't malicious, I've just found out that out of our friendship group the other friends all meet up and have a separate group chat because they have children.
There is another friend who's childless but she isn't really interested in the group and never suggests meeting up. The difference is that I suggest meeting one on one, groups, I am always willing to go to soft plays, travel to them etc. I always go out of my way.

I am engaged and would like children in the next couple of years. The only suggestion is to join clubs to make friends, and I do get this but it's not a guarantee. I work 9-5 hours then have an evening job twice a week to help me repay my debt, then I have a driving lesson, have a pet, clean our home and I make all my food from scratch which can be time consuming though worth it.

I know it sounds like I'm making excuses but it is tricky. Some groups are also very selective and will not allow you into their clique.

I am 35 years old and just feel a bit lost and excluded.

It’s rubbish but I think it’s really common. In my female group, once a couple had children, they made their own separate WhatsApp group which I wasn’t fussed about as assumed it was just going to be baby chat that I couldn’t get involved with. They’d meet for play dates and stuff with their babies, fine. But then sometimes they’d do nice days out like the zoo or country walks and a pub lunch, and us child free members always felt sad that we weren’t invited to those days out as we’d enjoy it too. It definitely creates a divide in some groups. I am now a mum myself, my baby is a few months old. I’m in the mum WhatsApp group now and it really wouldn’t be interesting for a non mum, it’s just loads of chat about weaning and car seats.

I think what will hurt is if I have my own kids and they never bother with me. I think I need to keep my self respect by stopping trying to arrange things and bending over backwards

I found when I had young kids and babies I met other mums because they were free at the same time as me. Weekends and evenings wouldn't work because that was family time. It sounds like you are busy working all week. I only saw friends on weekdays and always home by 4pm to make tea, do the evening wind down time. You are just at different stages now.

Do you not think it’s more likely that you’ll see them more when you have kids? You’ll have that shared interest again and have loads to chat about.
If not you’ll make SO many new mum friends at classes and stuff!

Honestly no, I may as well cut my losses now. If they reach out to me in the future great, but I don't want it to take me having a child to be 'welcomed back in. Just hoping I'll meet new friends.

It's the having a separate WhatsApp that OP is not party to, that's unnecessarily exclusive and hurtful though. And those separate conversations mean that they simply forget to involve her when there are meet ups that aren't child centred.

It's not 'doing her a favour' so she doesn't have to listen to nappy conversations, unless they've given her a choice not to be in that group. Or at the very least, let her know that it exists, and it's nothing personal

But people also work with kids .

Time to take a step back and stop trying to make an effort when it's not reciprocated.

Anywhere you turn up regularly, you ought to meet some new friends.

There’s been a lot of excuses made on this thread. I think you are right to take this stance.

Your friends just aren’t that into you! I don’t think they dislike you but I don’t think they are that interested in you!

This isn’t just about you not having a child, you said another childfree friend gets invited to places right?

I don’t have kids and my friends (with two kids under five) recently traveled to a city near me for a weekend so we could meet up while they also had a city break(they can’t all fit in my flat). I spent time with their kids at the museum and they had a break at some points and let me and the kids run around the museum! And then they took me out for dinner before I left.

Another friend with kids flew to another part of the UK to celebrate a non-milestone birthday with me. She also traveled with me to an European city on my 30th.

I’ve been invited to soft play and children’s birthday parties and been made a godmother by two different friends.

Once I had nowhere to live due a crazy landlord and a friend with two kids took me in for 6 weeks while I sorted myself out.

I could go on but long story short is friends with or without kids will still show up for you or they’re not your true friends. Of course it may not be immediately while their kids are newborns for example! And they may not be able to go to certain places and it will take more planning in advance. However they will still reach out and show up for you!

I understand OP.

It feels really horrible because just because you don't have children doesn't mean you're not interested, habe nothing to offer the conversation or don't want to be a friend still.

I am part of a group of 5 friends from school days and prior to having a child myself, I found out that three of them had created their own separate group chat due to the fact they had children. Even though I'm sure they never meant it that way, it felt so hurtful. Basically like there was no point even bothering to speak to me or the other childless friend anymore.

They did still want to meet up though so I'm surprised your friends are not receptive to that.

Is there any one of them you are a bit closer to so you could tell her how you feel?

Then they are not friends….find new ones

Sounds like your other childless friend has done exactly that. Why would anyone really just hang around waiting to be included again once you have a baby? Surely your friends are your friends and you all adapt to different experiences. I’ve been the childless friend cut out and decided that the best approach is to do what your other friend did and back off and be clear that you are not going to be the ones to always compromise. She’s getting in quick with you as she knows you want kids!

There is only so much one person can bend , without a degree of reciprocity.

I agree. I don’t think friendship is tit for tat and yeah sometimes one friend will have less capacity than the other, but at some point there does need to be give AND take. Not just one party doing all the giving and the other doing all the taking.

I had a childhood friend like that. I was her designated therapist friend and I’d never really linked it to me not having kids . But then on reflection, she may have chosen me for that role because she felt as a single childfree woman I had all the time and energy to be her 24/7 therapist. Despite the fact she had a partner/father of her kids at home and I had no-one!

So for years I’d get the childhood trauma unpacked daily, then I’d see her on social media go out for drinks and dinner with her “fun” parent friends after not being able to meet me for so much as one coffee catchup in an entire year.

Yes I was a mug, and yeah I’ve learned my lesson lol

People with dc go into survival mode and have friendships that will mirror the life they’re going through. Nobody goes to soft play for the love of it so I’m sure it’s nothing personal, they just wouldn’t put you through it. You can’t have a proper convo or cup of coffee with one eye on yampy hyped up sweaty kids.

I stayed in touch with one of my childless friends but most go by the wayside, and no consolation for you now, but those new friendships will disappear once their children move on too.

Off thread last word…when you say “clean our home” I hope you don’t mean he sits on his arse and you’re solely responsible for cooking and cleaning? If so, I’d get that shit nipped in the bud before the wedding and any of your own dc come along. Trust me. That won’t be a fairytale ending either if you shackle yourself to a lazy man.

Dumb and pointless remark.

There's a lot of truth in this. When my brother had his first child, I went over to see him and his wife and the child. There was other couple with a new born there. I lay in the sun for 3 hours listening to talk about babies, bums, poos, eating habits, crying , teething, sleeping, not sleeping etc. It was obviously very important to them and they had a need to discuss it.

Gosh, yes exactly! All the gin nights, theatre trips, restaurant outings I'd hear about but never asked to be part of. I was definitely the designated therapist, unload for an hour over a quick cuppa at a time convenient for her of course, and off she'd pop back to her real life. At least we learnt a valuable lesson; don't be a schmuck!

Hmm I've definitely focused on my friends with kids because my childfree friends made me uncomfortable talking about my child too much, made a few jokes about "careful not to turn our whatsapp into a baby photo dump" as well as being awkward at organizing stuff. So I've just left them to it, and I get in touch when I feel like a childfree evening. I'm sure some of them feel the same as you. But my spare time is extremely limited, I'm not going to bother with people who 1) are in a very different stage of life and 2) are not interested in my life.

On the flipside, I have a lot more in common with the friends with kids, meet ups are relaxed, I don't have to actively pretend I don't have a child for 2 hours.

Well apparently I wasn’t even worthy of a cuppa, she would offload everything to me via multiple 10 minute voice notes 😭😆

exactly we live and learn. I am definitely much wiser about what I choose to accept in friendships now.

@PenguinsandWhales So I've just left them to it, and I get in touch when I feel like a childfree evening

This is so rude. You're not their friend, you're using these people. If you're not interested in staying in touch fine, but don't be too busy for them because of your 'extremely limited' spare time and v busy parenting life, then pick them up when it suits you.

How long have you been in this friendship group...how young are their kids. How did you find out they have this separate group? Have you met their children? Sorry for all the questions but I find their behaviour a bit strange if I'm being honest. In my friendship group two had babies years before the rest of us but we still went to their birthday parties childless and their babies came along when we met up now they did also meet up just the two of them as their kids were close in age. But the rest of us were still involved in knowing these children. Now we are all mums we don't meet up with the kids as much as we did when them two were babies but we meet up just us. I would see past it if say yous met up once a month for a catch up but to never meet up or reach out they don't seem like good friends

When you have children you will find your own circle of mums who have had their children at the same time as you. This will give you a new circle of friends away from your original group.

Friends come and go depending on life choices, opportunity and interests. I have maintained a couple of close friends from my early 20's and have made some newer friends on the way. Some haven't lasted the course. This is just how it is for most people I think.

Yeah I’d soon ditch anyone treating me like that. But then I wouldn’t tell a friend not to talk about their kids too much. That said none of them do, they’re all well rounded people who can talk about a range of things including but not limited to their children.

Thankfully I don’t encounter these types of attitudes much irl from parents - it’s mainly MN. As I’ve said upthread many of my friends with kids have been really good friends to me.

IMO the people who “can’t” maintain friendships because their friend does or doesn’t have kids didn’t have much of a friendship to begin with.

I can talk to my friends with kids about last minute solo trips and they can talk to me about their kids party or new school. We can also talk about whatever trashy reality show we are watching 😆 We don’t need to have identical lives to relate, listen to, and support each other..

And that goes both ways. One of my childhood friends was a single parent in her early 20s, I used to babysit her kid regularly and take her on day trips whenever I was back home from uni. I didn’t just adopt a mindset of “I’m a law student and you’re a 20 year old single mother so we have nothing in common anymore and the friendship is done”

@Thegurnica

I agree, they are not real friends anymore, I don't know why that offends you so much. They're social companions when I want a night out. It was clear they were not my friends when they weren't interested in chat about my baby and warned me not to talk about "it" too much. Guess how that comment made me feel 2 weeks after my c section, feeling alone and vulnerable already?

I think they were selfish and a bit immature and probably have no idea how much those jokes hurt post partum. They probably think I'm boring. Everyone wins by just seeing each other ocasionally. What's so infuriating about that?

Not sure why you tagged me in this?

I actually stated I wouldn’t tell a friend to stop talking about her kids.