Can Trump be stopped, or are international rules basically optional now?

[Anytimeilookaround]

I’m genuinely asking this rather than trying to start a rant. Can Trump actually be stopped by anyone?

The UN condemning things with words feels meaningless when there is no action behind it. We are watching a US president openly dismiss international law, threaten other countries, and act as if there are no consequences, and so far there do not seem to be any.

I know people will say powerful states have always broken the rules, but what feels different now is the lack of discipline or even pretence. There is no attempt to operate within the system anymore, just an open rejection of it.

This is where Gaza keeps coming to mind for me. Not because war itself is new, but because what happened there showed how far things can go with no intervention beyond statements of concern. It felt like Gaza became the resting point of what the world will tolerate when a powerful ally is involved. Once that line is established, it does not stay contained.

If international law is optional, the UN toothless, and alliances unwilling to check their own members, then are we actually living in a rules based order at all? Or just a power based one that we have not admitted yet?

I am open to being told I am wrong, but I would genuinely like to understand what, if anything, actually constrains a US president now.

Didn't he say very recently that the only thing that could stop were his own morals?

So, no. Nothing will stop him.

I think Russia invading Ukraine and the world being too scared to go against Putin is another example of this. We are just being controlled by the bullies because none of the smaller countries want to risk becoming the bullied. It’s awful. It feels worse with the USA for me because I’ve always viewed them as an ally and a respectable democracy.

I feel that though he does want Greenland he has ramped up the talk about it to divert attention away from what he’s up to in Venezuela … but I do agree with your query… it’s like all the other countries are ‘staying out of it’. I feel sorry for Denmark but have a strong feeling they won’t take this lying down, it could get very messy.

He should be stopped but he won’t be. The so called rules seem to be there for all
countries except Russia and the US. He will carry on doing as he pleases knowing full
well he will get some official statements of condemnation but that no real action will be taken.

I can see why North Korea pushed ahead with their nuclear programme now. At the time they were portrayed as a rogue and dangerous state but I think they were building up something to make sure they weren’t a target at any point ? Maybe they are more insightful than we realised. Look how fast Irans attempts to have nuclear arms was crushed .

Remember when we were learning about Nazis in school and we all sat there saying “how were they allowed to do it?”

Now we’re seeing it play out in real time. This is how they do it.

We’re not shocked by anything this orange gelatinous blob does and that is by design. We’ve been desensitised but by bit so we don’t even notice it.

I can't understand it at all because I always thought one of the cornerstones of the constitution in the USA was checks and balances to ensure an individual like Trump would not exist. How has the system failed so badly at the one time when it is needed most.

But after with pp about his morality, it is non existent.

It is being reported this morning that Starmer is in talks to send troops there to counter a perceived threat from Russia or China, who also have interests in Greenland. Make of that what you will but this is not as simple as Trump being a loony who wants to take it over.

He told the New York Times this week that his own morality was the only thing which could stop him.

The only person threatening Greenland is Trump. This is just a distraction tactic to start saying that China / Russia are planning to do it essentially making the US the good guys somehow by getting there first and ‘protecting’ Greenland I assume. Starmer is probably just acting like a doormat so it’s not us next when Trump decides he needs another US territory near Europe ‘just in case’ although at least we don’t have any valuable natural resources so maybe we will be safe!

No.

we have always lived in a power based order but in general some of the powers some of the time will stick by the rules

think of it as like parenting a teenager. You set curfews etc. sometimes they break them but mostly they stick to them because you explain why the rules are in place.

no power can force the US to do stuff. Only the US can force Russia or China to do some stuff.

International rules are just a loose framework. Britain removing inhabitants of Diego Garcia isn't a great look. As mentioned by a pp, the Nazis did what they wanted whilst other nations huffed on the sidelines.

He’s doing everything possible to keep the media away from the Epstein files. I think what the focus isn’t on is what he (along with other very powerful leaders past and present - not just politics but business etc too) is genuinely concerned about. The US sent military jets over Syria last night: another attempt to deflect attention from Epstein.

Greenland/Venezuela/Syria - all just ways to deflect attention in as loud and dramatic and dangerous a way as possible.

No, we're in a might is right era and until he does something which forces other countries in to action it will just be tutting and sound bites

I think the reason Starmer and co are so quiet is because they can actually see Trump’s point. For decades the world has been quietly held to ransom by drug cartels and silent invaders like Iran, China and Russia but we’ve tiptoed round the edges, all while these huge states quietly amass more power. Or in Iran’s case, watch while they fund proxy wars (including arming Hamas) around the globe.

The fact that someone on this thread is pondering whether North Korea might be more insightful than realised is totally unfathomable to me.

I realise by even daring to say such a thing in an echo chamber, the response will be to suggest I’m stupid, thick or uneducated (none of which is true) but I do think it’s incredibly important to get your news from more than one source and also, really read around the issues.

I’m not a blind Trump supporter or a MAGA but I can see the ‘method in the madness’.

Weirdly I think it’s optimistic to think it’s about Epstein. We all know what’s in the Epstein files. We also know the kind of man Trump is. He’s been repeatedly accused of rape by multiple women, and inappropriate behaviour by others. What could the Epstein files have that would be worse? Or that could bring him down.

I think he’s doing these thing because he wants to, and that’s worse.

It is alarming that the US seems powerless to stop him as I’m sure this isn’t what the vast majority want.

What will the line be that we take action. With the nazis, it was when they step foot into Poland. We havent drawn a line.

i posted something similar on Reddit.

whenever i watch a movie/read a book set in that period I keep thinking, why didn’t the Jewish people leave sooner and save themselves, why did the world allow this to happen.

obviously at the time it was unprecedented and no one could imagine what would happen and although I’m not usually a catastrophist, lately I’ve actually been feeling scared about the world and what going to happen next and went on Google to check when the next election is.

I agree @Zhu. I see this Epstein distraction trope played out on social media all the time. He doesn't give a shit. He knows he and his cronies have got away with it. He is getting away with much worse. As you say, Epstein was pretty much operating in plain sight since his sex trafficking conviction in the 2000's.

Suggesting that his domestic and international war-mongering behaviour is a distraction from the Epstein files is odd, to say the least.

I agree with @Zhu I think it's more than Epstein because I don't think he cares that much about people knowing about his indiscretions.

In my opinion his biggest fear is his own failure, that's why the 2020 elections and power handover were such a shitshow and why Biden lives in his head.He could not cope with losing same with the Novel Peace Prize.

His aim is to stop the midterm elections because losing these would signal a personal attack and he cannot cope with these. The biggest punishment to him would not be jail or notoriety it would be irrelevance.

@oversees I’m not a blind Trump supporter or a MAGA but I can see the ‘method in the madness’.

even about invading Greenland?

I think we have got to a point where the US, Russia and China are carving up the world into spheres of interest and feel that they can do what they want within those areas.

They have been salami slicing for years and because smaller countries haven't united and stood up to them, they have taken more and more.

Putin invaded Ukraine because Russia had got away with invading Crimea years before.

Few countries will recognise Taiwan - a stable state and functioning democracy - because they are terrified of offending China.

The US has interfered in other countries for decades but used to pretend that there were legitimate reasons for doing do. Trump doesn't pretend. He will admit that he just cares about US interests.

The pp who used the analogy of the rise of the Nazis is spot on. Hitler started off with actions like invading the Sudetenland where he could pretend that the German speaking people wanted German troops to enter (like Putin in the Crimea). Every time he got away with something, he tried getting away with something else and for a long time, France and the UK just stayed quiet and let him.

It's depressing to see that the big powers don't give a fuck about international law or the UN and no longer pretend that they do. I can't see smaller countries uniting to stand up to the bullies.

This is about Trump trying to cut off economic supply to Russia and China.I am no Trump supporter and every day I wonder what next.

People need to become less emotional about Trump and look at the bigger picture. My previous job meant I learned how dangerous the China, Russia, Iran axis was a few years ago and couldn’t understand why the British public were being allowed to live in their bubble, complaining about western societies.

The threats to us are real. If Trump is ballsy enough to do something about dismantling it, however uncomfortable that may feel, it has to be better than the alternative.

It has absolutely not one thing to do with drugs but everything to do with Venezuelas huge oil stocks.

I can see the reasoning but that doesn’t mean I agree with it. As tensions with China or Russia ramp up, the argument is that everyone wants Greenland and sooner or later they will probably try, so Trump’s rationale is that he’d rather get it before anyone else does.

Again, no, I don’t believe you can just help yourself to another country but I can see why everyone wants to.