Can Trump be stopped, or are international rules basically optional now?

[Anytimeilookaround]

I’m genuinely asking this rather than trying to start a rant. Can Trump actually be stopped by anyone?

The UN condemning things with words feels meaningless when there is no action behind it. We are watching a US president openly dismiss international law, threaten other countries, and act as if there are no consequences, and so far there do not seem to be any.

I know people will say powerful states have always broken the rules, but what feels different now is the lack of discipline or even pretence. There is no attempt to operate within the system anymore, just an open rejection of it.

This is where Gaza keeps coming to mind for me. Not because war itself is new, but because what happened there showed how far things can go with no intervention beyond statements of concern. It felt like Gaza became the resting point of what the world will tolerate when a powerful ally is involved. Once that line is established, it does not stay contained.

If international law is optional, the UN toothless, and alliances unwilling to check their own members, then are we actually living in a rules based order at all? Or just a power based one that we have not admitted yet?

I am open to being told I am wrong, but I would genuinely like to understand what, if anything, actually constrains a US president now.

There is the ICC and ICJ,

But yes ultimately it all depended on everyone playing along. Perhaps not perfectly but at least making an effort.

With Gaza we saw the US in particular disregard international law completely and now blatant rule breaking in Afghanistan.

None of the US, Russia or China recognises the ICC and none regards ICJ rulings as binding.

The ICC is now widely regarded as ineffectual and politicised.

And the ICJ is and always has been, frankly, a joke.

He is doing it in the dumbest way possible then

For one, he has constantly misrepresented how NATO works. Nations do not pay a % of their GDP to NATO as he claims. They spend it on their own forces, that that make available to NATO. And they work together so the forces they invest in complement each other.

Next, he is actively making the US a potential enemy of it's allies. He is making armed conflict between the US and Europe become a real possibility. Who would have thought that would happen. And what does that do to the US arms industry and the US economy ? Who is going to buy F35 jets from the US, when it might be the US they end up in conflict with.

And we are have seen this already. Sure Europe is ramping up it's defense spending, but they are doing up by ramping up their own production. Not buying from the US. Spain has cancelled talks about buying the F35. Canada is debating wither to go with the F35, or cancel it and go to SAAB. The US, amazingly is warning Canada to not cancel the F35.

Because who is going to buy arms from the US now ? Who will buy the F35, or HIMARS, Patriots etc, when the US can probably just switch them off. It will certainly withhold spares.

There is no justification, bigger picture or otherwise.

What you mean is, you don't think there is justification. Plenty would disagree.

And plenty, if not more people are against forced takeover of Greenland. Including, most importantly, Greenlanders.
It's their country, they should be in charge of what their country is and they have made it clear they do not wish to be American. What a horrible thing that would be.

Trump is wanting to match tyrants with tyrant behaviour - disgusting, illegal, immoral and wrong on so many levels and absolutely no justification.

No there is no justification. As people have pointed out Greenland is already covered by NATO. If the US are that concerned about the security of Greenland or trading routes then they have other options than to invade it. They can increase security guarantees, increase the number of US troops in Greenland (which they are welcome to do). They could increase investment in Greenland. There are many many other options other than taking it by force. Taking it by force no less than from another NATO country and a current Ali of the US.

It being “essential for national security” is just simply not true. And is not a justification for invading it.

The man is despicable. Politicians, leaders and we all need to stand up to him and say no.
He has no right to invade another country, kidnap their president, and threaten to do the same with another country.
But looking at our politicians and leaders, they don't even have a backbone among them.
We're stuffed 😡

Trump seems to be deteriorating pretty rapidly as a result of frontotemporal dementia, so the next few months will be a very hairy/scary time as his behaviour becomes more and more unhinged (than usual). He 100% believes his own lies and his attention span is now around 30 seconds, maybe even less.

Trouble is Trump doesn’t actually scare me half as much as Vance, Miller and Hegseth do. Trump is at least somewhat predictable in his unpredictability. All bets are off with the others

I think Trump has the MAGA love though, the others don't appear to hold the same sway. Like it or not he does have charisma and they adore him, Vance really does not

Israel and the USA connot be compared to Nazi Germany. I said groups which includes Houthis, I used that word because while they control territory they were never a government. You may not like how those countries are governed but they are still not Nazi regimes.

You are hysterical and not a serious person.

You clearly have a basic comprehension problem. So let me explain it again. What I and other posters were saying is this is how the Nazis rising to power happened. Ordinary people falling for the lie that all their problems and difficulties in life were being caused by “that group of people over there”. Once they had been convinced of that they started turning a blind eye to what Hitler and his pals decided to do to those people, and it wasn’t just Jewish people. Israel want their population to believe that they can’t exist if Palestinians exist. Trump wants his population to believe they can’t be happy if there are any immigrants in the USA. How much will the people tolerate I wonder? Actually there are politicians in the UK who want us to believe the same thing, that immigrants are bad, people on disability benefits are bad, poor people are bad. You just have to persuade enough people that all of that is true and you have a dangerous situation. I won’t be explaining it again, because I suspect you are just a fan of Trump, Netanyahu and Putin.

@Bringemoutwhy not? There are a lot of undeniable parallels between the way the Trump Administration are behaving and the early days of the Nazi rule.

This is just silly.

It’s like Rick from The Young Ones.

@DenizenOfAisleOfShameright now Ice are going door to door in Minneapolis and the twin cities with weapons drawn. Without warrants. Whole streets blocked off. This is a rouge administration
God Help the residents of Minneapolis

"International law" is a concept rather than reality. There is no International police force enforcing it. It's something people like to say, but it isn't really meaningful. It's like when people chirp about "illegal war". Either all wars are illegal or none are.

Oh gosh, I don’t think you understand how strong and how wide and how deep MAGA is. Trump is the current figurehead but it absolutely won’t die out with him, in fact it’s likely to get even stronger.

Nothing that alters the situation in Afghanistan, I should say. The UN stands by and expresses disapproval while doing nothing; they're entirely toothless. In fact in 2024, the UN excluded women from a conference in order to placate the Taliban.

And as far as I'm aware, the UN has not imposed any new sanctions on Afghanistan since 1999.

If the US confronts Russia directly there is a very significant chance of a nuclear exchange.

That's a pretty serious step to take.

This in't actually true, there are still many legal immigrants in the US, and there are no plans to shut down all immigration. There are significant immigrant communities there that are Trump supporters.

Obviously you don't have to like his approach to deporting people who are there illegally, but I don't see what the point is in giving misinformation.

I find Vance even more terrifying tbh.

Possibly because you haven't read much US 20th century history?

The US closed all but one of its bases in Greenland. It's not about defence. They could have a large military presence if they wanted. They decided it wasn't important anymore after the Cold War. Trump told the NYT he wants to own it and it's important to him. Hitler also wanted it.

The US was allowed to do whatever was needed to protect North America from the Soviet Union. None of that required making Greenland US territory.

Greenlanders have said there haven’t been Russian or Chinese ships in their waters.