to think flexible working is still gendered?

[HazelMember]

In my organisation, very few men apply for flexible working for childcare reasons. The vast majority of applicants are women.

What’s frustrating is that men and women often do the same jobs, but flexibility is still framed as something mainly for mums. Women are encouraged (or expected) to adjust their working patterns to juggle childcare while men are seen as less likely to be “flexible”.

That just reinforces the idea that childcare is primarily a woman’s responsibility and paid work is a man’s priority.

Yes I know there are men who opt for flexible working and do the majority of childcare. This is not about that.

I’ve found that it is normally the lower paid in the partnership that applies for flexible working/part time working as the financial impact to the household finances is minimised.

Oh yes! I work part-time, know a few women at my level that do the same but only a handful of men. It’s perfectly possible but my male peers are senior leaders with important jobs, don’t be ridiculous!

Nearly every person in my team has some sort of flexible working (drives my boss crazy but she gets she needs to do it to holds on to the best staff) - compressed hours, annualised hours,termtime only, whole year but reduced hours in holidays, hybrid wirking etc. Pretty even male/female split, and about half have primary or pre school age children, rest are childfree or grown up children.

Several come from various European countries and do hours which enable them to go back for long weekends, or build up extra leave for trips. Some do it for a better work- life balance without having children. Children definitely aren't the only reason for flexible working.

My husband wanted to be the one going part time post children. I was having none of that 🤣- I spent 18 months with a child taking over my body, which will never be the same again after birthing 2 10lb chunks. I felt I had 'earnt' the drop of hours, taking my girls to lovely park playdates etc.

I don't necessarily disagree with you that more women apply for flexible working than men but I don't agree that it's a bad thing in itself. I personally believe that women are generally the ones that put a greater emphasis on being around more for their children and many actively find value in this additional time. I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with this. Equality doesn't mean that women have to do the same things as men in exactly the same way.

Must differ by industry? At my work, almost all the men with kids do flex-time. My DH is in public sector, he does flex-time for kids, as do many other of his male colleagues.

But yes, uptake by men of all things childcare and parental leave, is still problematic.

Saying that women “choose” to prioritise being around for their children more than men sounds neutral but it ignores the reality of how deeply gendered expectations still shape those choices. Women are socialised from the start to see caregiving as their responsibility, while men are encouraged to prioritise paid work. When most flexible working for childcare is taken up by women, that isn’t just preference, it’s the result of long-standing norms, workplace cultures and practical pressures like the motherhood penalty and unequal pay.

The idea that there is “nothing wrong” with women slowing down their careers misses the bigger picture. When women step back and men continue to rise, the long-term consequences are unequal pay, fewer women in senior roles, less financial security for mothers, and power structures that remain male-dominated. Framing this as harmless personal choice risks normalising a system where women consistently absorb the career costs of having children while men do not.

Equality doesn’t mean women have to live exactly like men, but it does mean that parenting shouldn’t come with such unequal professional consequences. When flexible working, career sacrifice and reduced progression are seen as “natural” for women but not for men, it reinforces the idea that childcare is women’s work and leadership is men’s. That isn’t choice, it’s structural inequality dressed up as preference.

Real equality would mean both parents are equally supported and expected to balance work and childcare, without one group disproportionately paying the price.

Of course it is.

Its going to take a lot longer than a single generation to see actual change where men stop refusing to share the unpaid shit work

Exactly

I work in the public sector and DH in corporate business. Both full time hybrid. DS1 has really struggled with transition to secondary and is now on a part time timetable. Tbh I just assumed that I’d have to rearrange my hours / WFH more etc to be able to manage it but I’ve been gobsmacked by DHs work who have offered for him to WFH as much as he needs to accommodate DS so we’ve been able to split the disruption fairly.

My own manager has always been brilliant so I knew I’d be able to do it but having that extra support from DH and his work is priceless.

Women are encouraged by who? I've never seen a woman be encouraged to work flexibly. I've only ever seen women who want to work flexibly ask to work flexibly. Men often don't want to work flexibly so don't ask.

Let's not make this into some kind of discrimination. This is women making choices for themselves.

People don’t have to be directly told to work flexibly for it to be encouraged. A lot of it happens quietly through expectations. Women are usually the ones expected to handle childcare, school runs, sick days and appointments so they are the ones who feel they need flexibility. That is not just preference, it is responding to what life requires of them.

Saying women simply choose flexible work ignores the pressure behind those choices. If you are the parent everyone assumes will step in at home, flexibility becomes a necessity rather than a genuine option.

Men not asking for flexible work does not mean there is no bias. Many men worry about being seen as less committed if they do. Women, meanwhile, are often judged if they do not prioritise family. Different pressures, same system.
Encouragement is not always something a manager says out loud. It shows up in who is expected to leave early, who handles emergencies and whose job is treated as more adaptable.

Calling it all just women’s choices oversimplifies the reality. People make decisions within the roles and expectations placed on them.

It’s 50/50 here for the 2 sexes….most people work compressed….so 4 day week….or 9 day fortnight …..or work 4.5 days over 4 …..those are the main patterns that are requested

But you're not answering the question of who encourages and who expects. I'm a woman, I have children, I chose not to work flexibly. As grown ups we sat down, before we became parents, and decided everything would be equal (working hours, funding our lifestyle, childcare, running the home etc) and that's what happened. We didn't take anybody else's opinions into consideration because its none of their business.

Women claiming to be 'pressured' to do old fashioned women's roles is just a useful cover for women that want to stick with the old fashioned approach to parenting.

My DH and I share pretty equally sickness and appointments for kids, he tends to do a lot of the short notice ones because of the way he works. In my team there’s an equal split of men and women and both men have flexible working arrangements to suit childcare. In my friendship circle the men tend to share childcare and flex work to suit.

Ultimately this boils down to your beliefs regarding observable differences between men and woman and how much of this is down to natural biological differences or gendered social conditioning. You seem absolutely adamant that more women opting to work flexibiliy is mostly due to the latter and other practical considerations, whereas I would argue that women's different neurobiology plays an important role in their behaviour and desires. The scientific reality though is that this is a very difficult area to study and draw any definitive conclusions so we are all working with what we do know. Social conditioning certainly exists and is influential but we also know that women have fundamentally different biology and importantly will be impacted by hormones very differently than men.

I don't agree with your concluding statement either that real equality looks like women and men being equally expected to balance work and childcare. So every parent just carry both responsibilities equally? What about personal preference and desires? Are these simply sacrificed so we can achieve your narrow definition of equality where everyone does the same? I'm sorry but I can't get onboard with that.

Instead I think we need a revolution where equality is viewed differently. If more women want more time with their children when they're young then why does this automatically mean that they should be penalised so disproportionately when it comes to their careers? Why are we so inflexible as a society that we can't accommodate people working flexibiliy and also building a career?

The fact that work structures and expectations largely remain pretty much the same as they did before women meaningfully entered the workforce speaks volumes. Modern workers are expected to work as if they were a man that has a SAHM at home picking up all the domestic and child related activities. This simply isn't practical anymore for women or men. I think in these areas we can agree. I just don't think we shouldn't need to mandate that men do as much flexible working as women in order for these changes to happen. We shouldn't need men to do something in equal measures to prove it's a valid choice that shouldn't be penalised. This isn't what feminism should be about. What women can choose differently and have this difference respected and supported.

How bizarre! A 'useful cover' for a terrible crime of a mother wanting to spend time with their young children.

What if a family sits down and the father has a burning desire to spend more time with their child? What is that a 'useful cover' for?

The misogyny in your post is alarming. You are not superior to other women who want to spend more time at home with their children. You get one life and you must prioritise what matters most to you. If a priority for you was to do everything absolutely equally then great but this won't be a priority for everyone or how everyone wants to live.

Isn't it up to fathers to ask for flexible working if they want this?

I work in a place where flexible working is very common and like you observe, it’s usually women asking for childcare reasons.

How else did you think this would pan out? Women are often the lower earner so it makes sense that she becomes the flexible worker from a household budget impact angle and men who don’t work full time are seen as lazy because they are expected to be the provider. I’m not saying that’s right btw- it often means that the woman ends up stuck in her current role because she has to prioritise the flex hours and the man doesn’t really learn how to parent because he’s not doing the time consuming drudge like school runs and activity drop offs. The woman also often becomes the more competent parent because she gets the practice during maternity leave - there’s a shocking number of incompetent men who are excused from looking after their kids on their own by the women of that family who fall over themselves to make sure that the man doesn’t have to do it alone ever.

I think that women only realise the true long cost cost of their decision to flex if they split up with their h. The man will often be richer because he’s invested time in his career and not have to pay CM if he goes for 50/50 and outsources the care to the new gf, female relative etc. The woman may have less pension contributions and savings reducing her choices like where to live after divorce. You see it on threads here very regularly and the OPs are shocked that their decision to flex for their family isn’t “paid back” later and that they are expected to immediately scramble for more hours/income.

Your experience is not the whole picture. Just because you and your partner were able to make equal choices doesn’t mean everyone else has the same freedom or support to do that.

Pressure isn’t always someone directly telling women what to do. A lot of it is quieter and built into how things work. Women are still more likely to earn less, more likely to be the one the school calls, and more likely to be judged if they don’t put their kids first. Men usually aren’t expected to change their working lives in the same way.

So when women say they feel pushed into taking on more of the childcare, it’s not just an excuse to stick to “old fashioned” roles. For many, it’s the path that makes the most sense financially, practically and socially even if it’s not what they originally imagined.

You were in a position to shut out outside expectations. A lot of women aren’t. When you see the same pattern again and again, women stepping back while men keep climbing, that is not just personal choice. It is societal expectations nudging things for women to take more of the responsibility.

The majority don't though so it forces the women to ask for it instead.

I agree. My DH asked for flexible working due to needing to pick SD from school on a Friday and take her to school on a Monday (SD lives a 1 hour drive away, excluding traffic). His works initial reaction was "Can't your wife just do it", obviously they had to accept it in the end (After he explained that I can't do it because I have our own DD to pick up from school and I don't drive) but we were both very ticked off that they wanted me to do it rather than give him flexibility.

Then the women have a partner problem not a flexible working one

That's not the case in my organisation, it's both. DH and I both work 5 in 4 and one day a week WFH.

Absolutely. I'm currently researching this area for an essay 🙂

You aren’t wrong but it isn’t always the case, I knew men 30 years ago working flexibly, it’s down to men not orgs usually