To think my friend needs to send her son to a SEN school?

[SimonSaidIt]

My very good friends son is non verbal (bar a select couple of phrases) and he is 7 years old. He has a diagnosis of autism and goes to mainstream school. He has had several 1:1 and the parents have little communication with the school, other than parents evening. From what my friend says, he spends his time with his 1:1, and she doesn’t get any updates on the work they do together. Her son doesn’t receive reading books or picture books from school or any type of homework.

Friend feels confident that he will make progress, and doesn’t think he would benefit from attending a SEN school. I’ve never worked in a school but have some personal experience of SEN and am worried in case he isn’t accessing the right education to help him make progress.

I think my friend is in denial about his needs and I’m concerned that it’s so hard to get places in these schools. If he’s not on a waitlist yet, I’d imagine it’ll be harder down the line?

I know it’s not my business. I just wondered if it’s likely that his school will encourage the parents to apply? I’m just so shocked that aren’t pushing for this, and suppose I’m worried the school could be failing the child.

Again, I know it’s not my business. I care very much for my friend and her gorgeous boy and just hope all turns out okay for them.

You're projecting how you would behave as a parent in these circumstances onto your friend and her child. You're expressing frustration as you would do things differently. You perceive that other friends have advocated effectively for their children and will achieve a better outcome. I'm not criticising you for this as I did this repeatedly over ten year with a friend and her clearly dyslexic child. She made encouraging noises every time we discussed it but never actually made much progress with implementation. It still infuriates me privately that she let him down. But he was her child and it was her decision. You've done all you can do.

@Kirbert2
so is my DD physically disabled- I didn’t mean if one is physically disabled then one needs to be in a special school- but it might make it a necessity. Being nonverbal or autistic alone (or both) doesn’t mean mainstream school isn’t appropriate.

I’d have been unable to send DD to local mainstream schools (despite wanting to) because she can’t stand or walk so needs a wheelchair, hoisting etc.

In her case that’s why there was no fighting for me getting her into an SEND school- along with her being PEG fed and that she requires suctioning occasionally) and is also doubly incontinent. Those are the sorts of issues that are physical but might add to the nonverbal autistic diagnosis meaning mainstream school wasn’t suitable- rather than as the OP suggests they don’t have “targets” or “homework or reading books”.

OP

I think you, like some people don’t understand or have awareness
a) of what actually happens in a special school
b) don’t understand that being nonverbal can be a condition for life (it isn’t just being slow to start talking)
c) that intellectual disability may or may not be present in nonverbal autism- you don’t say if your “friend’s” DS has an intellectual disability
d) that you can throw as many TAs/3-1,4-1 etc at someone but it isn’t going to make them have a capacity that they don’t have (if her DS indeed cannot speak for lifelong reasons) e) “reading books” for her DS aren’t going to make him able to read…..

Is this actually a DIL scenario or even worse a goady thread in disguise about why some autistic (and other) children cannot speak???

It isnt straightforward. DD went to mainstream primary which she loved. It was a small rural school and she had lots of support and a very proactive head who started the EHCP process very early on.

She is now at a special school for secondary and hates it. Her attendance is poor and school refusal is a big issue. Her school caters for children with profound and complex needs and she struggles very much with some of the other children. However, it would have been much worse for her in mainstream as she would have been totally unable to access the curriculum because of her learning disabilities.

In primary I had annual meetings for EHCP review as well as parents evenings. There were also occasional reports from the educational psychologist or the SALT specialist who came in but other than that if your friend doesn't ask for other updates she is unlikely to get them.

Despite being non-verbal, if your friend's son doesn't have learning disabilties then a SEN school may not be the best place for him.

My son can't stand or walk either. He's bowel incontinent and has a central line because he is dependent on parenteral nutrition some of the time but not during school hours so school just need to be aware of his central line and what to do if it is caught/pulled out accidently or he gets a temp. He's also has medications but is able to swallow tablets and just needs one lot during school hours thankfully.

He has no intellectual disabilities and as far as I could tell, all the nearby SEN schools would be unsuitable because they require a global developmental delay diagnosis and then one is only for autistic children.

If only it was so simple. Getting a SEN school place is a huge challenge.

However, he's not your child and his schooling isn't your business.

I imagine your friend has a lot to deal with already and your opinion on what she should be doing almost certainly isn't particularly welcome unless she's specifically asked for your advice.

The best thing any parent can do in this situation is make sure their child’s needs are being met. This can be really hard to achieve.

One really good way to do that is to get a private Ed Psych report if that’s an option for her. It would be best for him to have an EHCP and a report like this is good evidence for the appropriate setting (SEND or ms) and the approaches he will need to progress as far as he can.

Of course many non verbal or minimally verbal autistic dc have LD, but equally some are actually very bright. I met a teacher once who had a child in her class (small class sizes, independent school) do well at A level with only a few words of expressive language.

What this child needs isn’t clear from the info we have here, but sadly local authorities often need to be pushed to admit children to the right setting.

Well it sounds like school are taking the mickey, just ditching him with 121s and basically babysitting him. Sadly many schools do this with disabled kids who struggle to access the curriculum - rather than adapting learning targets etc school just opt out.

May be a SEN school would be right fit, maybe a different mainstream school, maybe your mate needs to hassle school more to do the basics properly.

It’s hard though. I got my kid into a special school and it cost be the best part of £100k in legal fees, 2 years and ALL MY SANITY. And i’m educated. I have energy in spades. I’m a tiger mother. Not everyone is or can be that way. So if your mate asks your advice - sure you can advise her she should be getting more from school and SEN Kids need adapted education. They don’t just learn stuff by osmosis from being around mainstream kids or else they’d learn to not have SEN.

If she doesn’t ask, keep schtum. Being a SEN parent is hard hard hard. Sometimes all your reserves are gone by 10am and there’s no time or space to do extra.

Most areas special needs schools are full and they do it for those will greatness needs.
With so little language they are hardly going to be reading books, often more places at special needs schools are available at senior school age.

The issue seems to be lack of communication with the school, rather than with the suitability of the environment. Some schools/teachers are better at it than others, and special schools tend to have lower ratios so more capacity to do regular updates. They often have better systems in place for teacher to parent communication too.

My son is in a special provision, but only because his primary school placement utterly broke down and he ended up out of school with EBSA. A mainstream environment with support would have been a better if he were able to cope with it, as he could access a more varied curriculum. Unfortunately the lack of intervention at primary level has meant providing a much more intensive option further down the line. At great cost.

Having personally and professionally seen this situation play out a lot there's a good chance the LSAs are not doing any curriculum with him whatsoever and are simply entertaining him day by day.

Some (not many I've met, but definitely some) families simply believe mainstream is the right place for their children with high needs SEN. I usually don't personally agree but never said anything, children have a right to mainstream education.

@SimonSaidIt The allocation of Sen school places and even 1:1 is rarely fair. The very dedicated sharp elbowed parent will always triumph. Other dc just bob along and no one advocates for them. It’s always been the same. “Shout” the loudest and you get more but your dc might not need more than a far worse dc with parents who cannot navigate the system.

As a parent of a child who sounds exactly the same... if I knew what i do now, id have kept my son in his very supportive mainstream for all of primary. He was always going to need sen but I wish id have delayed it as long as I could.

I'm really, genuinely, interested- why?

@StartingFreshFor2026 my sons temperament is very calm, and he is a very chill child, despite his many difficulties. He is triggered by loud noises. His sen school has children who can be very heightened, loud and aggressive (this not me judging them, they're dysregulated and communicating). But my son can find the environment very triggering/upsetting, then he cannot learn himself. He has also been hurt by other children throwing equipment. I feel there needs to be more sen schools for that type of behaviour. My son was very fortunate to have a very inclusive primary school for reception year (as inclusive as a mobile unit away from reception class can be), but he was happy and well cared for. Sadly all sen schools are oversubscribed so classroom sizes are far bigger than they should be. I expected my son to go to send school and suddenly have speech and language therapy or be in a class with children of a similar disposition but nope, its still a fight, just a different fight. Perhaps I was naive. After many meetings he is now in a more suitable class.
This might sound very negative of his sen school and i dont mean it to be, but just honestly answering your question. they have wonderful staff and really try but like everywhere, they are up against it. Parents often send in their sick child too and bugs go like wildfire. (not always) but most of the time you know if your child is unwell, non verbal or not but its easier to get away with if the child cant communicate theyre ill.
My son also has many happy good days too but I wish id kept him in a calmer environment. My son cant cope with headphones etc

Everything you've said makes sense. Non verbal or children with learning disabilities can't go to the current behaviour special schools though because they are just not appropriate. You can't put non verbal autistic children in nappies who take off their clothes randomly in with kids who are mainstream ability, sexting, involved in drugs and sometimes gangs. I don't think that's what you're suggesting though.

He probably does. And yes it would be better (have lots of experience of SEN schools). But they’re full. I know countless non-verbal children who cannot get any school place (or only mainstream which parents are refusing - becuase their child is non-verbal). The only people I know getting places are having to go to tribunal. It’s really bad out there!

@Arthurnewyorkcity Going back 30 years, we did indeed have separate SEN schools for disruptive dc. We called them EBD schools back then. It was perfectly clear that these dc needed a separate school as they did at secondary. Sen doesn’t always get provision right and sometimes a calm primary is better.

They have SEMH special schools now. Problem is they're not suitable for children with severe cognitive delays who also have challenging behaviours. E.g. I have a non verbal autistic child in nappies in a generic special school (thriving) who has quite challenging behaviour, he would be incredibly vulnerable in an SEMH school. It's impossible all round. I don't know what the solution is as it would be difficult to create special schools for each profile of need.

We have pupil referral units now.

Your friend is extremely unlikely to be in denial about her childs needs - what a ludicrous and patronising comment.

As the parent of an autistic child in mainstream school I get comments like these - from some of my closest friends ALL THE TIME>

It really really upsets me. Please assume your friend knows very well what her child needs - that she is battling in a system where there is NO IDEAL situation for many children.

EVERY CHILD has the right in LAW to an INCLUSIVE EDUCATION (Sorry for shouting!!) - to be educated alongside their peers, in their community.

It would actually be much less expensive for the council to give a child like this one to on esupport within mainstream then send him to specialist - blame the government for their poor approach to SEN teaching.

there aren't just a load of 'lovely sen schools' she can just decide he can go to.

She may well have her own reasons for wanting him in mainstream.

@Marylou2 it infuriates you that your friend didn't follow your advice?. You are no friend if that's what you think.

I can tell you as a SEN parent that the decisions I make do not need to make sense to anyone other than me, my husband and my child.

I know very well they often don't make sense to outsiders - that's because they are horrible stressful decisions with no ideal situation - and I cannot explain every variable to all the judgy people I know.

It would break my heart to think a friend of mine was 'infuriated' by my decisions - I'd literally rather they never spoke to me again and didn't pretend to be my friend.

Mind your business. I’m very rarely offended but I find your post offensive. It isn’t as easy as you think it is. I am a teacher and a Mum of an SEN child that would love them to go to a specialist provision but there aren’t enough places. Schools cover up for themselves and say they can meet need when they’re can’t / are not. It is very, very difficult to say to a teachers face “I don’t believe you are doing everything that you should be and what is stated in their EHCP.” And then maintain a good working relationship. Leave them to it if they are attending school and receiving extra support. The school will tell her if they can’t meet need for r if they think a referral is needed.

I agree @Lamentingalways it's genuinely offensive - this is one of my greatest worries as a SEN parent - that I'm being judged by people I care about for my child being in mainstream education despite how hard she finds it.

I could talk for hours about why she is in mainstream (apart from anything else she specifically wants to be in mainstream and I believe she should have that right) - I know very well that there are friends of mine with no lived experience of battling the SEN system who think I should 'just send her to x or Y'

Ive had friends say 'why don't you send her to a little private school' or 'why don't you send her to the specialist' - without any idea of how impossible some seemingly 'simple' solutions are - and the sleepless nights, endless hours I spent thinking/fighting/ working out what is best for her in the long term.