To think my 4.5 yo should be able to play by herself for a bit?

[Awbiscuits]

Today is the last day of the school holidays and I'm totally drained from the last 2 weeks. I just want to sit on the sofa and be left alone but 4.5yo just doesn't seem able to entertain herself even for an hour. Is it unreasonable to expect her to?

She's had company the entire school holidays - DH and I have been off work the whole time and we've done days out, board game afternoons, played her pretend games, crafts etc. She's had friends over a few times. We've also got a slightly unique family set up in that our 5yo nephew spends a lot of time with us as his parents are quite dysfunctional so it's not as if she spends a lot of time without a playmate despite being an only child. However he is a very independent player and will set himself up with the playmobil or lego happily for hours, DD then gets cross that he won't play her game and starts antagonising him until he either gives in and plays or an argument breaks out.

She got so many new toys and bits for Christmas yet she's spending the afternoon following me around whining that she's bored and wants to watch TV or wants me to do xyZ with her.

Someone please tell me how I go about getting her to entertain herself for short periods?! I used to spend hours playing with my playmobil when I was a kid and hated other people joining in so I just don't get it!

Ps full disclaimer I love my child with my entire being and spend loads of time with her, I just need some time to myself!!

Yeah my eldest is 7 and has ASD and just cannot play alone. Even if he's doing lego he constantly wants me to watch or comment or ideally sit with him. It's hard!

That’s interesting and I haven’t seen it before. A line I saw when DD was a toddler was “don’t let your teaching get in the way of their learning” and it’s something I repeat to myself with my current toddler. It’s so easy and tempting to try and engage with their interest and witter on when what they really benefit from is time and space to explore the thing in their hands or before their eyes in silence. It’s something I still have to work at but it’s important so I bite my tongue and leave him be!

This is your own doing im afraid. From the off you should have put boundaries in so 'no' is understood

Agree. Some children are naturally inclined to play well on their own, and some aren’t. But those that aren’t (additional needs aside) need to (and can) figure it out if their parents stick to their guns about it. Children somehow not being capable of playing on their own is a recent phenomenon, created by parents who don’t let them.

This isn't evidence that they couldn't be taught/encouraged to develop the skills to play independently though. Its evidence that one twin needed more support to learn these skills than the other. As you've said, they're two different people and each needs to be parented in a way that works for them.

Some kids do and some don't. Same as adults - some love their own company and some want to socialise every spare minute. It's just who she is.

I’m just saying some people think this/some people think that. And that’s OK. I personally think it’s very difficult to teach, if at all.

DS used to be obsessed with doing jigsaws at that age but maybe children don't do those much now, he used to spend hours doing them

try explicitly saying something like “we’re doing quiet choosing time now - mummy is going to read a book ok the sofa and you can choose either X or Y to do for 15 minutes quietly ok” and see if that helps? Sometimes they need the expectations spelled out.
or make a load of flour mixed with water and put it on a tray and let her play at dining room table with it - that always entertains my Dd when I need a minute!

There isn’t evidence that there is either.

I’m a teacher. I know all about making kids do stuff independently.

Mine drove me mad. And l did everything. Turned out she was just wired differently.

It's very much dependent on the child. Both of mine were able to play independently from toddler age (and also able to sit quietly for a film for hours). I never used to understand why people would say that it's a skill that needs to be taught - I don't feel that I consciously taught it at all, and they've had plenty of scheduled activities and trips out which if anything have increased their creativity. From my friends though I do see some children struggle with it, and I don't think it's really down to parenting so much as child temperament and probably ND issues in many cases.

I think that a lot of our scheduled days out have been quite creative and open-ended, and it's probably a bit subconscious amd perhaps genetic for us as I have a creative background. I think there's a bit of romanticising of letting children be bored though, and it comes from parents similar to your nephew's - parents who can't be bothered or can't afford to entertain their dc, and not all that desirable.

My DD did. She has no capacity for independent play except playing computer games. Loves screens. Now 8, still won't play alone except Roblox. I've given up on getting her to do otherwise and now I've accepted it it feels like a huge weight off my shoulders.
For context, she's an only child. Does baking with me for a bit, loves going out and about to do activities like climbing, swimming etc., is popular and plays really well with friends, doing well at school. It's just how she is. Exhausting but OK.

Nursery is non stop activity. It is what she is used to.

You are getting good advice here. This is quite common and really depends on the child's personality too.

Some kids don't do imaginative play but may love physical play or construction play. I'd give her jobs to do, yes you'll still have to engage but you might get some chores done. Sorting socks, emptying stuff from the dishwasher, cleaning kitchen cupboards, weeding the garden. Try other things than your view of 'play'.

I also believe it's ok to be firm with her on this, she isn't 2. You can schedule mums quiet time or mums work time where she is absolutely not allowed to disturb you, start with 10 or 15 mins and work up. You can use rewards / sanctions for this but be really strict on it. If she does approach no eye contact and do not reply. It's very important for a child to know that they are not the only human in the world and you don't exist just to serve her. She will end up being really demanding with carers and friends unless she learns to be alone for short periods.

Kids aren’t left to entertain themselves nowadays. Everything is worked around entertaining them and keeping them from being bored, so they have zero idea how to amuse themselves. Can you give her some ideas of things she could do independently? Or help her set up something (crafts, drawing, toys) and then leave her to it?

There’s a trend these days of people saying nature creates the child, not nurture. It’s an excuse for lazy parenting. You see it on Mumsnet all the time: “you get the child you get”

Children have strong personalities of their own, but all children (again, with the ever necessary on Mumsnet “SEN aside”) are biologically wired to play. It’s a modern notion that some children are somehow incapable of playing and need screens, tablets, video games, or a parent constantly entertaining them like a dancing monkey.

Speaking as someone who was adopted. I agree with that saying.

Im completely different to my adoptive family and very like my birth family,

I have two children and the elder one (4.5) is just starting to be able to play on his own for longer periods. This more or less coincided with him being able (just before 4) to hold a pencil properly and do drawing/colouring and crafts. He could (if allowed) watch TV on his own for maybe 90 minutes. I also think that when he can read he'll be happy to do that for hours. The younger one (just turned 2) has always been able to play by himself, and as soon as he became mobile he would spend his time rampaging all over the downstairs of our house getting things out of toyboxes and putting them back in again. At naptime and bedtime, if he's not tired, he can sit in his cot all by himself for up to 2 hours playing and singing. He gets bored if he's watching TV and wanders off after a few minutes though. I do think you just get the child you get - obviously we have encouraged elder DS to play by himself but it's taken actual years to get to this point, whereas we didn't have to do anything at all with younger DS.

I’m sure you are. But children are still wired with the ability to play if they are left to play.

Mine wasn’t.

Well yes, you’ve said she has adhd.

So as I said before, neurotypical children are wired to play.

DD, almost 8 and only child, is still like this. DH constantly panders to her and undermines my attempts to build up the length of time she will play independently and the range of activities, without screens. But DH is WFH and a recluse so he is here all the time to constantly undermine my efforts.

My advice is that you and your DH together need to work out a strategy to build small amounts of independent play, you will need to make the suggestions of what she might do (give her two or three ideas) and sometimes set things up (arts and craft), then step away and busy yourself doing something that is wholely unappealing to her (cleaning), start small 5-10 minutes. When she starts doing it off her own initiative be sure not to go in and disturb her when she is in the zone, it's easy to do as your so delighted that you want to see the happy occasion!!

Sorry to say op my only child 7 year old is still very similar to this. I can never predict when she'll get in to her own game and start playing happily, when she does DH and I have to sit quietly somewhere and not break her focus or it could be ruined in a second.

The only time she is consistently able to entertain herself is after bedtime when she is supposed to be sleeping. Funnily enough she's also much better at it when I am out of the house as she doesn't badger DH nearly as much. So on a quiet Sunday afternoon I'll walk the dog or go to the gym and she'll actually have a nice play and DH can watch football or whatever.

I've spend a lot of money on trying to find the right toys that she'll love and will capture her imagination.

My DD does the bedtime bit too, singing to all her animals, and making up stories, so she's clearly capable of it... So frustrating!

Thinking that it can't be taught at all is problematic though. Firstly, because it isn't true. Secondly, because it massively disadvantages the child who isn't thriving under the current parenting method. Telling people that if they've tried one method and that hasn't worked it means the child is incapable of learning/being taught that skill is incorrect and damaging. To suggest that a child's personality is set by nature/they were born to not be able to do something and that you should give up trying to teach them if it's difficult for you is wrong. There's a serious failure in logic in your argument and children are the victim of that.

It's not an issue of some people think one thing and some people think something else. Its an issue of there being a huge amount of research supporting the idea that nurture matters and absolutely nothing to support the idea that it doesn't.