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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think infant circumcision is wrong but also that a total ban on it will not work and is not the most effective way to tackle it?

732 replies

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 00:49

On the recent threads after the tragic death of the baby boy who died from circumcision performed by a non medical professional, there have been a lot of calls for a total ban on here.
Now, I think infant circumcision is very wrong. But in practice I do not think a ban will work.
Most cultural circumcisions are performed by medically trained people. Backstreet ones need to be cracked down on with the full force of the law, but they are not typical.
Second, circumcision is key in Islam. However, while most agree it’s either compulsory or strongly recommended, age requirements are not as stringent in mandating someone has to be a minor. I think there is some hope sensitive campaigning within the community could maybe make more families consider leaving it until their son is at least maybe an older adolescent with more ability to choose.
Judaism – circumcision is central to Orthodox, Ultra Orthodox Haredi ofc, and more liberal Masorti and Reform. It is extremely unlikely that any law or external pressure would stop these practices, because brit milah is a covenantal obligation tied to Jewish identity. Attempting a blanket ban would likely trigger defensiveness, fear, maybe underground circumcisions and probably emigration of at least some to Israel or elsewhere, rather than protect children.
Focusing on sterile procedures, trained practitioners, and medical supervision would be more likely to significantly reduce risk. Jews have experienced persecution for circumcision in the past (e.g., Hellenistic bans and European restrictions), so any attempt to criminalise it today can feel existential. This is only heightened by the terrible upsurge in anti Semitism recently.

I agree with sentiments behind calling for a ban - I just thing measures short of a ban are more likely to work.

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Thread gallery
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Carla786 · 04/01/2026 14:05

stilldumdedumming · 04/01/2026 12:59

This is making me feel quite sick. It’s not just Judaism and Islam. My dgs has just been done in the living room this week (not in my house). No anaesthesia. He is tiny. Cost around £200 done by a Jewish man ‘off a database’ - to appease the mother (Congolese and Christian). It’s barbaric.
Having said that my dad was done too in the 1940s - Catholic, English - pretending to be upper class. I always assumed it would be done in a clinic.

That's terrible : was this man medically trained?

There needs to be strong pressure to ensure people use a medically trained circumciser and pain relief.

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Mischance · 04/01/2026 14:06

sabababa · 04/01/2026 13:09

You call it mutilation. Those circumcised babies grow into men who are perfectly happy that they were circumcised.
And no, you dont know what is best for all babies. Sure, dont circumcise your own babies, that's fine. But you really dont know what is best for other people's.

I do indeed. I know it is fundamentally wrong to mutilate babies. Our law recognises this in the case of FGM - rightly so.

These "perfectly happy" men, as been pointed out several times, have nothing to compare it with because they have never known a normal penis.

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 14:07

Blushingm · 04/01/2026 13:38

Why is it so important?

As previously stated the greater risk is because of the anaesthetic (educate yourself 🙄)These poor babies are held down with having had little to no anaesthetic. An older child or adult is often given a GA.

Plus having it done as an adult is the adults choice

Pain relief MUST be used! No ifs, no buts. Any reform must include that.

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Carla786 · 04/01/2026 14:08

Blushingm · 04/01/2026 08:39

FGM is a huge part of some people’s faith/culture but we ban that. What’s the difference?

If there was a faith that chopped off the little finger would you say ‘allow it in medical facilities’ or would you class it as disfiguring and ban it?

No major religion prescribes FGM and the risks and harm are much greater, that's why it's banned.

I think the harms of circumcision as a baby ARE great : I just do not think a ban will work

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Fleurdeville · 04/01/2026 14:09

Why can’t it be replaced by a symbolic ceremony? Perhaps holding the scalpel close to the baby and gesturing the act but not actually cutting anything? Then recording tgat the child has had the ceremony performed?

we create these symbolic gestures and rituals - G-d didn’t say do this, scripture did and we can’t say that it makes sense if G-d is omnipotent - if the foreskin is not needed then it would change/ be absorbed into the body. A symbolic ceremony would still acknowledge the covenant aspect for practising Jews so why cant it be considered so that over time it replaces the physical act?

It really troubles me tgat such an irreversible act takes place on a baby - it contradicts the idea of faith as choice and instead commits a baby to something they have no say in.

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 14:09

Itsmetheflamingo · 04/01/2026 08:12

Is that the same in practicality? 🤨

do you bring “something back” to demonstrate how easily something else can be banned, or is that not just a ridiculous thing to suggest?

Banning smacking (to the extent it is) happened due to social change- it would not have happened in the 50s.

societal change will lead to male circumcision being banned but if that happens at all, it will be a generation away.

Jews and Muslims would need a generation who would supported a ban themselves OR were ambivalent about it to have a societal change.

However, As PP have pointed out due to religious scriptures and the close adherence to them this may never happen.

even Finland- with very few Jews and Muslims in their population- were unsuccessful in making male circumcision illegal. Maybe they’ll succeed in c30 years. So maybe c60 for us to be in the similar position.

it’s not a quick change.

Edited

Thank you- this is exactly what I mean!

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Millytante · 04/01/2026 14:11

LeonMccogh · 04/01/2026 14:02

I wonder how many of these oh-so-liberal posters would be aghast at parents who spank.

Aren’t we?

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 14:11

Fleurdeville · 04/01/2026 14:09

Why can’t it be replaced by a symbolic ceremony? Perhaps holding the scalpel close to the baby and gesturing the act but not actually cutting anything? Then recording tgat the child has had the ceremony performed?

we create these symbolic gestures and rituals - G-d didn’t say do this, scripture did and we can’t say that it makes sense if G-d is omnipotent - if the foreskin is not needed then it would change/ be absorbed into the body. A symbolic ceremony would still acknowledge the covenant aspect for practising Jews so why cant it be considered so that over time it replaces the physical act?

It really troubles me tgat such an irreversible act takes place on a baby - it contradicts the idea of faith as choice and instead commits a baby to something they have no say in.

It's not done though bc the foreskin is not needed - it's a marker made to set believers apart. Not simply bc foreskin is believed to be unnecessary.

Very different to US where weirdly there seems to prejudice against uncircumcised foreskins! 🙄

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SerendipityJane · 04/01/2026 14:11

LeonMccogh · 04/01/2026 14:02

I wonder how many of these oh-so-liberal posters would be aghast at parents who spank.

If a parents spanking left a child permanently mutilated that would be an intelligent thing to say.

Mischance · 04/01/2026 14:11

LeonMccogh · 04/01/2026 14:02

I wonder how many of these oh-so-liberal posters would be aghast at parents who spank.

What is the relevance of this?

Mischance · 04/01/2026 14:14

societal change will lead to male circumcision being banned but if that happens at all, it will be a generation away.

It need not be a generation away if it were made illegal tomorrow. Those parts of society who support it would have no choice but to accept the ban or be in breach of the law..

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 14:15

Itsmetheflamingo · 04/01/2026 08:32

There is a brilliant AMA from an Orthodox Jew on here one of the things she said that interested me is that Jews have guidance which dictates they basically “cause no trouble/ support the powerful” in the country in which they live.

Because they have been expelled from every country they have settled in, over time survival methods been brought in. They basically include following local laws, being good citizens and serving the local community. I was surprised by this but have heard the chief rabbi confirm it numerous times (ie attending church on a Saturday for the kings coronation was fine because he is the head of state)

that would mean that gaining support from the rabbinical court would be vital for the government.

That makes me wonder whether Jews might be more likely to adhere.
However, that adherence may well, as others have said, mean they immigrate to a country where they can practise safely. And the very rich history of Jewish Britain would be lost, which would be a tragedy.
I also think ultra orthodox who are more independent of the Jewish rabbinical courts could ignore the law.

Muslims however whilst generally law abiding of course, do not have this side of their religion and in fact Gods word comes before anything man made. I am pretty sure my Muslim friends (I work in Luton so they are quite traditional but not massively so) would continue to circumcise even if it were illegal.

that's all obviously just my opinion though.

I agree...but 'cause no trouble' would not mean changing what many see as a fundamental commandment. It might be seen as persecutory by some even, esp Haredi, many of whom have a strong history of trauma in the past due to Holocaust.

I just don't think people would want to obey such a law atm.

In Islam theoretically at least though there's not such strictness about doing it as a baby. And while it's compulsory for Shia Muslims it's not seen that way by many Sunnis.

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Carla786 · 04/01/2026 14:15

Mischance · 04/01/2026 14:14

societal change will lead to male circumcision being banned but if that happens at all, it will be a generation away.

It need not be a generation away if it were made illegal tomorrow. Those parts of society who support it would have no choice but to accept the ban or be in breach of the law..

I think honestly they might move abroad. Or do it abroad ...

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Carla786 · 04/01/2026 14:18

Hoardasurass · 04/01/2026 09:16

I.would agree but I look at fgm and parents still take their daughters abroad to have ot done and very few have ever been prosecuted even though its illegal.
What we need is a two prong attack that involves talking to the communities and actual prosecutions and serious jail terms with all children removed from the family to protect them from the same fate.
Unfortunately much like the non stunned slaughter of animals which is illegal there will always be a religious exemption (which btw is don't agree with).
Until we have a government thats willing to stand up to all religions and say these are our laws no ifs buts or maybe's and if they are incompatible with your religion tough move to another country or obay our secular laws and punish those who break them nothing will change

actual prosecutions and serious jail terms with all children removed from the family to protect them from the same fate.

  • removed? Sorry, but our prisons, legal system & care systems are overflowing. This policy is not going to work well- and I don't believe in taking children away because of this.

This will just make the strictest Jews like Haredi hide away even more. Shia Muslims too. Kids will be in more danger, not less.

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Carla786 · 04/01/2026 14:19

AmpleMintBalonz · 04/01/2026 09:20

That assumes that there are a lot of parents still taking their children abroad for FGM rather than the law helping to reduce the practice hence very few people being caught doing it. If everyone who have or might circumcise their sons was put through safeguarding measures like they are for FGM, maybe the practice would reduce too.

If people want to emigrate just to do it, and other countries permit the practice, maybe we should let them go there.

I read in a 2014 book that France was very good at prosecuting people but that Britain had been poor at catching them and thus got less convictions - not because it wasn"/ being done.

I need to check now.

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Carla786 · 04/01/2026 14:20

Itsmetheflamingo · 04/01/2026 09:29

I’m invested in a mature conversation. Banning everything without thought for the practicalities is simplistic and doesn’t acknowledge the implications of blindly legislating against things without mature and informed planning.

Exactly

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SerendipityJane · 04/01/2026 14:21

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 14:15

I think honestly they might move abroad. Or do it abroad ...

We have laws that address FGM and it being done abroad

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 14:21

Hoardasurass · 04/01/2026 09:29

You do realise that the only reason a baby doesn't need sedation is because they cant fight back and stop the "procedure" or move away from the person wielding the scalpel? It still hurts just as much and comes with all the same risks, the only difference is that a baby wont remember the pain when they grow up

Pain relief MUST be used.

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TheLivelyCat · 04/01/2026 14:21

I haven't read the whole thread, I wonder how Men who were circumcised feel about this topic. For example my brother was as in the country he was born in it was normal practice at the time. My DH isn't. Dose it effect there daily living? Has any proper studies gone into pain and trauma experience, at the time long term?.
I think it's a complicated issue, I can't fully comment on the religious context, as someone not from their faith.
But I think comparing it to FGM isn't the same as they know that long term damage, trauma etc.

Blushingm · 04/01/2026 14:21

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 14:07

Pain relief MUST be used! No ifs, no buts. Any reform must include that.

That’s what I was getting at - these poor babies often have nothing but grown men opt for a GA? I imagine the pain must similar - same a chopping off any bit of a body

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 14:21

SerendipityJane · 04/01/2026 14:21

We have laws that address FGM and it being done abroad

Yes,,because FGM is seen as harmful enough to warrant a ban. But have the laws actually reduced the practice?

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Carla786 · 04/01/2026 14:22

sabababa · 04/01/2026 09:36

I presume you mean the Jews but dont want to say it in case it sounds like the antisemitic trope that it is.

Quite!

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SerendipityJane · 04/01/2026 14:22

TheLivelyCat · 04/01/2026 14:21

I haven't read the whole thread, I wonder how Men who were circumcised feel about this topic. For example my brother was as in the country he was born in it was normal practice at the time. My DH isn't. Dose it effect there daily living? Has any proper studies gone into pain and trauma experience, at the time long term?.
I think it's a complicated issue, I can't fully comment on the religious context, as someone not from their faith.
But I think comparing it to FGM isn't the same as they know that long term damage, trauma etc.

I wonder how Men who were circumcised feel about this topic.

I thought ir was accepted fact hat they don't count ?

Blushingm · 04/01/2026 14:23

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 14:08

No major religion prescribes FGM and the risks and harm are much greater, that's why it's banned.

I think the harms of circumcision as a baby ARE great : I just do not think a ban will work

I agree with you……seems sabababa doesn’t

Contrarymary30 · 04/01/2026 14:23

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 00:59

A lot of Jews & Muslims will end up in prison then...is that really the best outcome?

I predict if prison sentences would enforced there would be a mass exodus, and as I've said, the boys would still end up circumcised, maybe in more unsafe conditions.

They absolutely should end up in prison . It's 2025 and time these barbaric practices were stopped .