Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think infant circumcision is wrong but also that a total ban on it will not work and is not the most effective way to tackle it?

732 replies

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 00:49

On the recent threads after the tragic death of the baby boy who died from circumcision performed by a non medical professional, there have been a lot of calls for a total ban on here.
Now, I think infant circumcision is very wrong. But in practice I do not think a ban will work.
Most cultural circumcisions are performed by medically trained people. Backstreet ones need to be cracked down on with the full force of the law, but they are not typical.
Second, circumcision is key in Islam. However, while most agree it’s either compulsory or strongly recommended, age requirements are not as stringent in mandating someone has to be a minor. I think there is some hope sensitive campaigning within the community could maybe make more families consider leaving it until their son is at least maybe an older adolescent with more ability to choose.
Judaism – circumcision is central to Orthodox, Ultra Orthodox Haredi ofc, and more liberal Masorti and Reform. It is extremely unlikely that any law or external pressure would stop these practices, because brit milah is a covenantal obligation tied to Jewish identity. Attempting a blanket ban would likely trigger defensiveness, fear, maybe underground circumcisions and probably emigration of at least some to Israel or elsewhere, rather than protect children.
Focusing on sterile procedures, trained practitioners, and medical supervision would be more likely to significantly reduce risk. Jews have experienced persecution for circumcision in the past (e.g., Hellenistic bans and European restrictions), so any attempt to criminalise it today can feel existential. This is only heightened by the terrible upsurge in anti Semitism recently.

I agree with sentiments behind calling for a ban - I just thing measures short of a ban are more likely to work.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Mapleleaf114 · 14/01/2026 14:10

Carla786 · 04/01/2026 01:54

Many Ultra Orthodox Haredi families have large numbers of children, and extended family might be unable to care for relatives' kids while the parents are in jail , for this reason — removing parents risks children ending up in care, which would be massively traumatic and completely disproportionate. It would also reinforce the belief that non-Jews are a danger to Jewish families, strong in some sections of Haredi.

Do you really think that jailing loving and otherwise law abiding Jews, Muslims, maybe some Africans parents etc would be practical? Legal system & child services are already stretched to breaking point.

It would just drive people from those communities to disengage with services and make it harder to monitor.

What about female genetical mutilation for religious reason- whats the point of having any child protection laws at all if children can be abused and mutilated with religious excuse?

Carla786 · 14/01/2026 15:33

sabababa · 14/01/2026 06:29

Depends which stream, as you mention. Some are more inclusive than others. There are some whcih are very extreme like Neturei Karta.

Good point. Neuterei Karta are definitely...something else!

OP posts:
Carla786 · 14/01/2026 15:38

Mapleleaf114 · 14/01/2026 14:10

What about female genetical mutilation for religious reason- whats the point of having any child protection laws at all if children can be abused and mutilated with religious excuse?

FGM has documented severe effects on sex, birth, mental & physical health. Circumcision does not appear to have such bad effects.

I know someone will bring up the type 4 FGM, which involves a nick similar to how the original Jewish circumcision did, and ask why we ban that but allow circumcision. The key thing with that is that type 4 usually escalates to type 1, 2 or 3 which are all more extreme.

I'm defending the lack of ban,just explaining why the current situation is that way.The fact it is culturally normalised in 2 major religions & in the US doesn't help.

OP posts:
Soupsavior · 14/01/2026 16:01

@sabababa no you have not read through all the linked research studies on all over those papers on that amount of time so I'm not going to engage with the rest of your post and you're posting completely in bad faith and refusing to actually engage properly with any of the British medical standards and their comments on the AAP review and their dismissal of the health benefits. Every link I sent you has multiple links to multiple journals or studies and there are plenty more but you're reluctance to engage properly is why I declined to send them all to you because you're not bothering to read them properly and are wanting something that's going to summarise my point in as many words as a tiny forum post. I'm not saying you're posting in bad faith as a personal attack I'm saying it because of you continually ignore posters questions and points at the same time as basically saying "you're making that up" then you're actually the one accusing someone of bad faith and on top of that aren't engaging in conversation properly by addressing people's points and questions.

The facts still remain that when NTMC was performed in NHS hospital trusts despite the diligent conditions they couldn't prevent complications and there was litigations. It's also still a fact that the British medical system sees no substantive health benefit to NTMC and therefore don't recommend it and that urologists are concerned particularly about the risks. Those documents and more online back up that I'm not lying as you keep repeating as a personal attack. If you're actually interested in a debate you could engage with my points (and others) in good faith otherwise why should we keep repeating questions at you that you ignore and when you have no intention of even being open to changing your position?

Allisnotlost1 · 15/01/2026 02:11

Carla786 · 14/01/2026 00:30

This is from Grok just as a quick look, I'll verify properly tomorrow.
The percentage of non-religious (secular) Jews who practice circumcision (brit milah) for their sons is very high, though it varies by location and has seen a small but growing trend of exceptions in recent years.
In Israel, where the majority of the world's Jews live, circumcision is near-universal across all levels of religiosity — including among hiloni (secular) Jews. Multiple sources, including reports from Reuters (from 2012 onward), Reddit discussions from Israeli users, and medical studies, describe it as a widespread cultural norm rather than strictly religious. Even secular parents typically circumcise their sons, often viewing it as a matter of tradition, identity, or social conformity (e.g., "it's what Jews do," or to ensure the child "fits in"). Estimates suggest over 95-99% of Jewish boys in Israel are circumcised, with virtually no significant difference by religiosity level — "nearly all" or "the vast majority" applies to both ultra-Orthodox and totally secular families. A small but increasing minority of secular parents are choosing not to (sometimes opting for alternative naming ceremonies), but this remains rare and often socially taboo.
In the Jewish diaspora (especially the United States, where most non-Israeli Jews live), rates are also extremely high among non-religious Jews — often described as "common even among secular Jews," driven by cultural identity, family tradition, or the general U.S. norm of newborn circumcision (though overall U.S. rates have declined). Sources like articles from The Guardian, My Jewish Learning, and others note that while a small and growing number of liberal/secular Jews question or opt out (sometimes choosing hospital procedures without ritual or alternatives like brit shalom), the great majority still proceed. There's no exact percentage from large surveys like Pew (which don't break down circumcision by religiosity), but anecdotal and expert accounts suggest it's well over 90% even for non-observant families.

Thanks, and thanks @sabababa too.

TheignT · 16/01/2026 14:18

sabababa · 10/01/2026 10:43

Well the american academy of pediatrics who has done a full review feels differently to you and they are the experts.

And I haven't made any sweeping statement over how adult men should feel. Its a shame your parents in law decided to circumcise their sons so he looked like his dad and because they couldn't be bothered to teach him to clean - those are indeed very shallow reasons to make such an important choice

Your reading comprehension isn't good or you deliberately make things up. I never said my late PsIL decided on circumcision so my husband looked like his father, I don't know if his father was circumcised and neither does he. I never said they couldn't be bothered to teach him to be clean. Makes it pretty obvious your analysis of other people's comments or studies is flawed.

Carla786 · 18/01/2026 05:35

Carla786 · 13/01/2026 21:20

Unfortunately I think specifically in Jewish communities, especially the strictest like Haredi, discussions of sexual pleasure impact might be seen as echoing historical anti Semitism.
In one of Primo Levi's books he notes that Italian Catholic boys would taunt Jewish boys by saying circumcision was like castration, and I've read of examples of this kind used as a slur against Jews in other cultures at times of persecution. This would fit with the traditional implication by dominant groups that men of persecuted groups were unmasculine.

Obviously discussing impact circumcision has on sexual pleasure is not anti Semitic, and it should be done. However, there must be awareness that it could be seen as resurging anti Semitism, especially by the Haredi who have an especially deeply-rooted history of persecution.

On this point, otoh both Maimonides (key Jewish philosopher) and the ancient Jewish-Alexandrian philosopher Philo noted that a secondary perceived benefit of circumcision was to curb sexual pleasure somewhat. So there has long been an acknowledgement within Judaism that circumcision does affect male sexual pleasure to some degree...

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread