To think that Trump's offer to take in South African farmers was one of his few good decisions, and confused why some people were angry over it?

[Carla786]

I loved Lauren St John's books as a child, and I'm now reading her memoir of growing up in Zimbabwe (then Rhodesia) during the civil war of the 70s. She writes extremely well about the postwar realisation that not having apartheid didn't mean Rhodesia hadn't discriminated against its black citizens. She also writes of the terrorism during the war where white Rhodesians' farms were attacked and families murdered.

It made me consider Trump's actions for white South Africans. Now, I think his use of the word 'genocide' was extremely poorly advised. Like the war in Gaza, it seems to be inflating genuine suffering into a very specific term which should only be used sparingly for circumstances where it actually applies.

But I think he was right to take in the farmers. I think Trump in general is a disgusting person and President. But that doesn't mean any action he has done is automatically bad. It's well known that South Africa is an extremely dangerous place to live in general and farms are particularly targets. I know that white South Africans disproportionately own farms so this is probably a strong reason why they are targeted. It's also arguable that there's probably some element of racial revenge in some criminals, given the country's agonised history, but I don't think that raises it to the level of genocide.

Whatever the motives are, the fact remains that white South Africans are arguably in danger where they live. Why was there such criticism of a decision to help people in danger, at no great discernible cost to the US?

Statistically, white South Africans are in no more danger than any other South Africans. Trump knew exactly what he was doing by offering them asylum. It's playing in to the culture wars, and exacerbating racism.

Hmm...if I had wrong info I'm really sorry. But I thought a lot of South African crime was attacks on well-off homes and farms, which are statistically likely to be white-owned?

Did you do any actual research before writing your post?

🙈

Hmm...well according to Grok (owned by the anti-woke white South African Elon Musk ofc) white South Africans are underrepresented among murder victims relative to their population share.

I don't really trust AI though & Grok has told me wrong info before. I will look into this though...it gave sources that seem to indicate..

Hmm- so has the 'farmers in danger narrative been exaggerated'?

I'm sorry for the mistakes I seem to have made. ... Can I ask what else he has been saying and doing in the region? Trump's foreign policy elsewhere has ofc got form for being dodgy...

This is so wrong. I work with white South Africans and it sounds horrific. They’re literally too scared to let their teenage girls walk to school. Listening to them, what doesn’t make the news is frightening. Clearly Trump is being fed the right stories here to make the decision he did.

Wait...so it's only white girls who are afraid? They are targeted based on race?

I had read earlier that South Africa has a very high rape rate but that black women are also in great danger.

Exactly this. SA has a long and complicated post colonial history which makes the issues of land ownership and race extremely complex. Trump is myopic in how he deals with this, deliberately so, as it suits how he chooses to polarise and then invigorate his domestic voter base. Trump’s actions tells you more about US politics than SA politics.
I also would not trust anything you read written on this subject by Elon Musk or any social media outlet attached to him.

I can only go on the stories my colleagues have told me. It sounds horrific. One poor lady had her house broken into (rural) and all her animals were killed. We had another woman involved in a barricade of their village as a group were travelling and it usually ends in a shoot out. This woman told me that they are targeted for being white and white farmers are being brutally killed and land being stolen from them.

YANBU

White South Africans should be taken care of. There's zero risk and negligible cost, if any.

These are true stories- but South Africa crime is rife.

Thank you. BTW I agree re Elon Musk - my point re Grok is that even an outlet started by Musk admits that the claims of systemic and disproportionate targeting of white farmers are more complex than Trump is claiming.

Depends on your comparison group.

White farmers in South Africa are in more danger than white farmers in Minnesota.

However, if you wanted to offer asylum to everyone in danger comparable or worse than that of white farmers in South Africa, you'd have to start by including many poor black South Africans and in the end everyone "eligible" wouldn't even physically fit in the US.

So they'd have to start by not offering asylum to specifically more wealthy white people. Which, for Trump and the vast majority of his fanbase, would never, ever do.

Terrible.. looking at stats, black women are clearly in great danger as well.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&rct=j&url=hsrc.ac.za/news/review/violence-against-women-in-south-africa-intersecting-vulnerabilities/%23:~:text%3DSouth%2520Africa%2520faces%2520a%2520persistent,of%2520women%2520in%2520South%2520Africa.&ved=2ahUKEwiN0K26tu2RAxU6V0EAHW4DEjYQ1fkOegQIBhAJ&opi=89978449&cd&psig=AOvVaw0s76nwD6RsvqBtHhShwPTO&ust=1767462880331000

I 🙏 the situation will improve ASAP...

What about black South Africans?

Certainly if attacks on farms are the main problem Trump wants to focus on, and black farm staff are also likely to be murdered in these terrible attacks, it would make sense to give them asylum too.

My cousin and her husband fled to the uk recently due to the crime and the corruption and the racism. He had a transport and logistics business which he had grown himself, and employed 20 or so.
His sister had been kidnapped three times, raped twice and robbed countless times (black offenders every time).
When he came to sell the business he was told he was not allowed to pass on to the deputy manager (white) it HAD to go to a black person.
They were limited to what money they could legally take out.
DC was able to get back to uk. Husband had to apply and pay a lot for a UK visa. No access to public funds. He is here now, suffering health issues, but managing to work.
In the rural Scottish community he settled, the council has boasted of accepting and welcoming refugees. When we contacted the council to see it they were eligible for help, being recently arrived from Africa, the council were all over themselves to help... Until they met them and discovered their race. Then it was silence.
But Theresa May said the great democracy the is South Africa is free and does not oppress anyone - so no special status for any south Africans coming here. It seems labour and the Scot Natz agree.

I'm really sorry for your family's experiences. 💐

Discrimination based on race is disgusting.

Re your sister-in-law's terrible experiences : the contention on this thread seems to be that white women in South Africa do suffer terribly from SA but that black women are targeted at the same rate. Would you argue that due to anti-white bias in institutions white South African women do not report SA as much, and that if they did, it would show that white women are assaulted more?

Re your family in Scotland...I understand they suffered discrimination and fear of attack based on race and that is vile.

But South Africa is officially classified as a democracy and is not at war. This is probably why they were not counted as refugees, not because they are white.

For comparison, Muslims, other minority religions & lower-caste people in India still often fear violence and discrimination. The UK would not classify them as refugees either because India is classified as a democracy, is not at war etc.

I'm not saying that's right - just that it's not just due to skin colour.

No, it was a nonsense to paint a false narrative that white people suffer 'reverse racism', which is not a meaningful thing, and there were several stories afterwards of the farmers who came to America having great difficulty actually finding jobs and homes and feeling abandoned. Trump didn't care about them except as propaganda.

There's certainly very bad crime in SA - my in-laws are from there and I know things are very worrisome and most people there have or know someone who has experienced violent robbery etc. But the 'white genocide' narrative is manufactured by the far right and not borne out by facts