Court of Protection Process - how bad is it?

[ProcrastinatorsAnonymous]

I'm the only child of parents in their late 70s, who are doing absolutely nothing to get their affairs in order. The most pressing is Power of Attorney. They haven't set this up for me, or for each other. I believe that my father is the only named person on most if not all of their bills / policies etc, so I worry that if he loses capacity first, my mum will have a very hard time sorting anything out - and it will be extremely difficult for me to help her. Same with medical decisions - as it stands, I believe we would need to go through the Court of Protection.

It's not that they are refusing to do this. Rather, they agree wholeheartedly that they must and they will, but then... They just don't. I bring it up every 6-9 months or so. Every time: 100% buy in, zero action. My father's health is noticeably declining and so this is becoming increasingly urgent.

What does Court of Protection process involve? I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has been through it how long it took / how complex.

If they just won't / don't ever do Power of Attorney, who steps in to help them if I can't?

Am I being unreasonable to push them towards Power of Attorney? I feel like I am strong-arming them, but they have said that they do want to do it... I am increasingly anxious about how I will cope with grief alongside mounds of admin and call centres and "computer says no" and forms - and I'm frustrated that they're not doing something that could make things so much easier, particularly as I have no siblings and will be handling all of this on my own.

Court of protection.. probably around £5000 now v £92 for each LPA

You will not get Deputyship via the Court of Protection unless your parents have been diagnosed with dementia or some other such condition that means they no longer have any capacity to make decisions.
Applying for LPA has to be their decision. If your DF does lose capacity, almost every business will take instruction from your DM, or even from yourself.

Having been through the court of protection process, it is long, full of bureaucratic processes and extremely stressful, on an ongoing basis whilst the person is still alive. It’s really unfair if they won’t do the lasting powers. My mum didn’t, I was the only one pushing it, I got ignored and my sister wanted to be appointed deputy at the point when it was too late to do the LPA - she got her wish, and complained about it mercilessly, when it could have been avoided. You can do the lasting powers online, I’d 100% push it or you’re in for a nightmare.

In our area, people I know are waiting 12 months + for CoP deputyship.

I had deputyship for my father who lost capacity

Happy to answer any specific questions via pm

Why not sit down with them at the computer first and set up their bills online. You could also contact the companies to see what their procedures are to prevent being cut off in case Bank Account is only in one name. This will show them how easy things can be. Most companies offer paper bills still from what I can see having just set up some for myself having moved to a new property at 64. It may concern them not to have paper bills. Then, why not set up an appointment with their Bank - their Bank will decide whether or not to go ahead on their behalf if happy this is the right thing to do. I am in no way inferring you have not got their best interests at heart, merely saying it is a service Banks offer having previously worked for one of the major high street ones. Most Banks prefer it. Have they got a GOV ID account. If not, set one up. It may be you have to do step by step but really pressuring is not the answer if they do not want to be pressurised hence nothing happening. It sounds very much like your Dad controls everything so he is the key. Slowly slowly will work far better than presenting him with a POA. They may also not like thinking about dying which is understandable. You do not mention having a family solicitor so this too should be put in place as a key issue. As said, the key to all of this is your Dad, not your Mother, though she may well surprise you once it all starts falling in place i.e. she will be relieved but will not say that. My Dad died intestate albeit in another country. It was hard but, not insurmountable, what had to be done thereafter. You are stronger than you may think.

You can draft the LPAs yourself on the OPG website. It’s much more user friendly now. You just pay to register them now. You could draft them and present them to them for signing.

I have experience of this because my parents ‘didn’t get round to it’ and my dad then lost capacity and we had to do CoP for him.

you don’t need a solicitor but the forms are lengthy and repetitive and you will need access to a lot of their information. It took about 5 months from application to it being granted for us and cost about £450 ish. That then comes out of his estate, the person who doesn’t have capacity pays for it.

re PoA- your best bet is to start the applications online (anyone can start one for anyone else, it’s just all the signatures you need to get in order etc). Print them out and then it’s important you get all the signatures in the right order- although if you do it all in one day then they will all be dated the same 😎

If one of your parents loses capacity, unless the other one has PoA there is NO automatic ability for them to be able to manage accounts and finances and you may find yourself in a situation where nobody can administer household bills etc. Health issues will in any case always be ‘best interest’ but there’s no such thing as ‘next of kin’ when it comes to having rights over money. You need the PoA.

Also though I wouldn’t just totally draft the full PoA because they will feel totally cut out of the loop if you don’t discuss with them who they’d like as attorneys or as witnesses.

Why not arrange for a solicitor who can do this to do a home visit so it can all be don't in one visit. Some solicitors do this for elderly people. I did this for my parents. The solicitor came back the following week with doc documents for us to sign.

DH has done POA for his parents this year, with him and his sister as the “attorneys” (if that’s the right phrase).

My Mum had a massive stroke, now lacks capacity, and we have no POA. We haven’t gone through Court of Protection.. SS assessed as as “lacking capacity” so they and us are both involved in decisions. I wish we had had POA, things would have been so much easier

I finally managed to get my father to do an LPA last year, he’s 93. I had broached it with him on several occasions and he’d agreed it was a good idea. Eventually after a lack of movement on his part I took my laptop over and did it online with him. He was pleased to have done it and I think he felt it was less daunting than he’d originally thought.
Just tell them you’re going round to sort it out and turn up with the forms or your tablet/laptop. It’s like any sort of life admin, we all tend to put it off and need a kick up the bum to do it sometimes

Or you could do it online on their behalf. It's very easy! I did it for myself and my partner. Input the information, print it off and then get everything signed and witnessed in the right order (that's the crucial part). There are very clear instructions on what to do, so you can't really go wrong.

Someone I worked with had to do this for her mum as she had dementia. Took her months, and cost thousands.
Get the forms, fill them out as much as you can, go and have a chat to your parents and when they say, yes we must do that, get the forms out and tell them you're saving them the effort of doing it. You'll never regret it.

I agree with PP that people can find the concept of making legal arrangements increasingly daunting as they get older.

Handled gently, they would probably be relieved and grateful if you turn up with the documents ready filled out for them to sign. They are not very complicated and you can just go over what they are saying with them. There is a place on the Health form for their preferences, but they don't have to fill that in and thus think it all through if they don't want to. Better if they are confident that you know what their attitude to treatment/dying is and will honour that.

Maybe you could speak to a neighbour who could be ready to witness their signatures.

Ideally they would be attorneys for each other, plus you and any sibling(s), with the power to act jointly or severally (ie just one of you, or all of you) when making decisions.

Another thing is their Wills. It's surprisingly helpful if you are an Executor. I was dealing with a relative's estate a while ago and most institutions wanted to deal with one of her Executors, which fortunately I was. I had to send a copy of the Will to some to prove this.

Thank you so much for all of these responses - really appreciate it. I am going to do as much of the form-filling as I can in advance, and then let them know I've done that, give them a few days notice that I'm coming down with the paperwork and ask them to think of someone to witness it.

I was worried that I was being too heavy handed, but these responses make it clear that it will be a massive pain for all of us if they don't do this. I think I have the right to push for it, particularly as I would be the one left dealing with everything on my own as their only child. It's not really OK for them to make things harder when that can easily be avoided.

My husband and I will do ours at the same time.

Will update if (hopefully when!) it is all signed.

Well done
Might I advise getting the person who will be the certificate provider there too. Getting them to sign same day as your parents (ideally) is really important then the attorneys can sign after.
My mums neighbour was hers and I arranged everyone, like a military effort to all be there to get it done and dusted in 1 go.
I got it all printed and post it notes for each person laid out then it was sign sign sign.

Excellent advice! I got mine signed and witnessed etc over two or three days and that made things complicated. Having everyone there in one place at the same (as I did for my partner's one) made it so much easier!

A little handy hint about LPA applications - when we helped MIL do hers we did them online then printed everything off to get it signed. We then sent off the forms. They were returned after a couple of weeks as incomplete - what I’d mistakenly done was removed all the blank pages, which apparently I shouldn’t have done!
So make sure you send back all the pages, even blank ones…

Please do this...

Court of protection is eye watering and protracted...

My parents did theirs when they were in their early 70s....its saved a whole lot of extra stress, 25 years later now my dad has fluctuating capacity at best... He can't manage his own money now.... I do all of it.... Speaking to other kids where POA was not in place... It cost a fortune, to be able to act in their parents best interests

We invited everyone round for drinks and nibbles the other day and got it all done as a social event. We had to do it while my youngest son was in the country so it was the easiest way.

You need to turn up, with a laptop in hand, and say come on sit with me we are getting this done now, and offer to pay the £92 fee if they don't like putting their hand in their pocket.

If they then resist, you need to have it out with them about why they don't trust you, and why they are intentionally putting you in a difficult situation as they enter their later years.

My parents didn’t do LPA or even a general one but when my Dad died and it was he who did everything then as my mum just didn’t want the trouble/couldn’t get out I organised a solicitor, who was amazing with her, to update her will and to discuss POA. My Mum then agreed to financial LPOA and it was all straightforward- I was concerned as her capacity wavered here and there I thought but because she understood the POA, and she did, then that is ok for the competence mark.
She didn’t do medical, which ended up being frustrating as missed appointments etc but she agreed with GP I could act for her if necessary (signed a letter) - so that helped and on any call, if I was there, and she gave permission at that point then I could also get info - I had no authority over medical decisions but I didn’t need to have this tbh and I was glad not to I guess.
The most frustrating thing I found is every single different company did it differently- after I had LPOA registered. I had to get so much sent/signed/witnessed to put some of her money into higher savings - then other places didn’t even seem troubled with the POA at all.
Local water company, pre POA to be fair, so reasons to need one! refused to put the water bill in her name without her specific consent - she was in hospital in covid times and they had no concept of why I couldn’t go in to get her to tell them on a phone call. However, I refused the bill in my name, obviously, and said they’d just have to not have a bill payer then and not be paid - suddenly it was all ok to do it in her name! Plus I could have got any voice to pretend to be hers really so not the amazing safeguarding they thought.
I always thought there should be a central consistent way to handle registration of POA across utilities, banks etc but there wasn’t and isn’t still.
Court of protection can be necessary at times but they don’t really want the work either though always step in of course when they see it as needed - but if you can’t get LPOA now maybe you can after a sad loss, when it’s maybe needed more, via the necessary redoing of a will and discussion, or maybe can help them without it at points by getting verbal consent in any calls. I managed quite a lot of essential stuff without it, on bills for example, lowering them for one as they really can rip the elderly off, though not setting bills up/paying for whatever directly with the bank of course.
Or maybe just print the forms and have a chat with them - a solicitor isn’t necessary really. They’ll be scared you’re taking over perhaps - I cannot imagine that conversation with my father, I never brought up the driving concerns. I had to have one with my mum about walking when no one was there - after she’d fell and cracked her head open doing this when she always said she didn’t and wouldn’t! It was quite awful for both of us as you are still their kid, who needs telling themselves.
Best of luck with it, don’t worry too much if you just can’t get it, things will work out.

Court of protection fees are all here. It could add up to thousands.
450 initial fee then 320 annually. Plus there may be other expenses on top. Annually, you will need to account for every pair of slippers or bar of soap that you buy and this can be very stressful.
www.gov.uk/become-deputy/fees

Either find a solicitor that comes out to the house or print out the paperwork & do it yourself.
You've been talking about it, you won’t be ambushing them.
Also see if you can add your mother’s name to all of the household bills at least which will help with day-to-day things.

Forget pussyfooting around, they’ve got to do it ASAP not just for their sake but your sake.
Without POA, just inform them that you will not be able to help or advocate for them.
Next of kin means nothing.
They could well end up in an unheated house, with no water, and no help or care & there will be nothing you can do about it.

Apologies if I’m coming across a bit blunt but whilst I got POA in place for both parents (& indeed myself!).

I have friends who are running themselves ragged through the Court of Protection just because their parents were stubborn regarding POA. They’re beginning to regret getting involved & certainly fond childhood memories are disappearing fast.