Embarrassed to be English

[Traballi]

Got ancestry results back recently and apparently I'm 98% English, tiny bit of Irish but not even Scottish or Welsh. It wasn't a surprise as already looked into family history and been here for centuries.

I'm actually embarrassed of my English lineage to be honest. What's there to be proud of with our appalling history of colonialism and more recent dallyings with the far right and flag shagging?

I see the British flag up where I live and I honestly cringe. I'm also married to someone who is from a country we have a history of conflict with too so that doesnt help although DH doesnt hate us excessively (won't name country in case outing but with our history of wars/ conflict/ invasion, it could be dozens of places lets be frank)

I guess I've had a different perspective on Englishness over many years through the people I know from overseas and I speak other languages too. I also went to a Catholic school (in England) which taught us about slavery and what happened in Northern Ireland. None of which was nice about the English (teacher was Irish). I'm grateful for these perspectives though as I wouldn't want to be brainwashed into being a blind patriot.

I have friends with strong Irish and Welsh roots and they have a real sense of identity to hold onto with it, ancestral languages that they're interested in and a feeling a pride.

If you're English, it's hard to feel like that unless you're in Tommy or Nige's crew, which makes me even less inclined towards patriotism tbh.

Does anyone else feel like this? It's a bit sad really. I'd love to at least be half something else to cling to that identity instead and ignore the English but.

Luckily my DC is only half English and has two other nationalities through DH, and is being brought up in Wales so will probably feel more Welsh. I'm also obtaining a passport from another country through DH soon and I'll be using that for all overseas travel as soon as I can so I can appear to be from there instead.

AiBU or do others feel like this? Being English just isn't cool.

That terrible imperial war monger Duke of Wellington ...

In what way, pray tell? You mean, the fact that he saved Europe (along with the Prussians etc) from the TERRIBLE IMPERIAL WAR MONGER, Napoleon Bonaparte? Let's get it right. Wellington was a soldier first, second and always.
He was somewhat disparaging of his English/British troops..."the scum of the earth", yet those very brave and despised men saved Europe, under the genius of Wellington.

But the slave trade was not unique to Britain. Far from it . I think it is overstating things to say all of Britain’s success is down to the slave trade.
The slave trade was commonplace across the world.

Yeah, where is all the Egyptian hate? They loved a slave? How far do you want to go back?

and yet people who say this are still happy to continue living here in safety, with free healthcare an education, in their suburbs home. Not so ashamed as to relocate

"They loved a slave" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Anyone who hates being English, do something good - educate yourself about history, support charities helping people overseas instead of whining and hating yourself

But these Guardain swallowers don’t want to do that, when virtue signalling and self flagellating only takes up a few minutes of their day!

Get a grip ffs

In Ireland they have a whole day devoted to the most famous slave they captured.

No. The unique raw material make up of Britain, the adoption of Dutch finance banking models that allowed the raising of capital rather then relying on legacy wealth, the rule of law that recognised property ownership and invention patents helped create the conditions for the industrial revolution. As to how much the slave trade contributed to the Britain GDP at the time it is still open to debate, I have read arguments that it was as low as 3%, other papers have pushed that figure upwards of 10%. What is known is that the salve trade made a small number of people very rich. For the vast majority of the population they were living on poverty wages in slum conditions with little no rights and dying young.

This thread is a very good lesson in understanding that some people really do get their education off of half wits on TikTok, as well as a total misinterpretation of actual events.

Ireland’s a funny one. No, they haven’t unleashed all out war on anyone, but they seem to have struggled to find their collective strength as a nation and use it for good. Britain has for sure got dark chapters but you can isolate some fairly breathtaking victories that have benefitted the world (both World Wars, abolishing the slave trade, establishing the Rule of Law). You can’t really do that with Ireland, all its history is viewed through the prism of Britain and it’s hard to stand back and see what as a nation it has stood for over the years. Perhaps that’s me not really understanding neutrality as a beneficial concept though (it’s not seen as a strength in Britain).

Or is in a different time zone ...

When you get your new passport, as you are so ashamed of being English. When your child gets a serious illness or you do, will you come back knowing it’s completely funded? Try living in Tehran, much more liberal for you!

You are being ridiculous, and frankly, your lack of historical knowledge is embarrassing.

Firstly, where you are from, an accident of birth, is nothing to do with you or any of us, and does not signal anything positive or negative about our characters, it just IS.

Secondly, England has a very long and rich history, and a great deal of it is not about us "colonising" other people at all (oh, and what do you think about the Danes & the Vikings, btw? Since they colonised us at one point, imposing Danelaw etc. Or the Normans, given William the Conqueror and how that completely changed everything for those who were living here, including imposing changes on the language of those here at the time). We also have a long folkloric history, for instance.

You might also want to look into all the other countries and systems that were "colonialists" and had empires which still impact their former "colonies" today (eg the Spanish, the French, the Portuguese. Russia & the Soviets. There are other big former empires, like the Romans who took over literally everywhere, not to mention the Ottoman Empire who were big world leaders in their day. Look up Suleiman the Magnificent.)

In terms of "brutal regimes", would you also profess such virtual signalling embarrassment if you were German, Japanese, Chinese, Russian, Rwandan, Serbian, Chilean, Ugandan or a multiplicity of other nationalities who have less than stellar histories? What about the US, given Trump? Or, say, its previous CIA support of brutal right wing military regimes in South America (Pinochet in Chile, for instance) because of its terror of communism? And which didn't get rid of segregation itself until the bloody 1960s? Something which we NEVER had in England.

If you think all these were somehow saintly in comparison to the supposedly evil "English", you're deluded and yes, you've been brainwashed. Get a grip. As well as some perspective. Being 'ashamed' of being English is beyond silly. And no, I do not do St George flag-shagging and am about as likely to vote Reform as Zara Sultana. But we are what we are, we have the history we do, it is as chequered as everyone else's, has many positives too, and largely follows similar patterns. The English are really not uniquely "terrible" compared with most of the world. Claiming so is pretty pathetic.

I can see from your recent posts that you’re putting a lot of energy into being provocative at the moment, so I’ll step aside and let you get it out of your system. You seem to have strong feelings about our little country, and who am I to interrupt a therapeutic snark session. Wishing you well ❤️

the strength of this 1 tiny island is basically unmatched the world over.

I'm not in favour of OP's culture-bashing but here we are moving from absurd to outright ridiculous.

Why this all or nothing nonsense? Countries are like people: strengths. weaknesses, faults, things to be proud of, things to learn from.

How is that remotely funny. Some really horrible posts on here but this.

Yes but that doesn’t mean they all have strengths and weaknesses and achievements on an exactly equal scale does it? England is amazing - our history is almost obsessed over by other countries as they find it so fascinating. Very few similar sized nations have done what England did, or exerted the influence (both good and bad) that England managed to.

I'm Irish so not a fan of English colonialism but there was an awful lot of it about - the Belgians, the Dutch, the Spanish, the Portuguese, the Germans, the US toward indigenous peoples etc. etc. A lot of pain and suffering and theft imposed on a lot of people by a lot of nations. The point is to acknowledge it and learn from it and move on. Tony Blair's apology for the famine meant a lot to me tbh.

Exactly. We live in a world that is dominated by the English speaking world because of North America by way of Great Britain. So the world is more aware of British colonisation than any other colonial powers. You say 'the Queen' or 'Queen Victoria' or 'Margaret Thatcher' or 'the Beatles' and the whole world has a picture in their heads. Spanish colonisation is talked about a bit. Portuguese and French and Dutch and Belgian hardly at all .

Unclench

The phrasing of it is what i found funny, not the idea of slavery itself.

Jesus.

Irrelevant

How so?

It's beyond pathetic.

If you're so "ashamed", OP, go somewhere else. Somewhere that doesn't have the UK's liberal values perhaps? Say, Afghanistan under the Taliban? Then tell us how "oppressive" and embarrassing we are.

Jeez.

Bridge on the River Kwai, have you any concept of the brutality that was dished out to those by the Japanese. It was beyond most of our comprehension. Where’s your hatred of the Japanese?