Embarrassed to be English

[Traballi]

Got ancestry results back recently and apparently I'm 98% English, tiny bit of Irish but not even Scottish or Welsh. It wasn't a surprise as already looked into family history and been here for centuries.

I'm actually embarrassed of my English lineage to be honest. What's there to be proud of with our appalling history of colonialism and more recent dallyings with the far right and flag shagging?

I see the British flag up where I live and I honestly cringe. I'm also married to someone who is from a country we have a history of conflict with too so that doesnt help although DH doesnt hate us excessively (won't name country in case outing but with our history of wars/ conflict/ invasion, it could be dozens of places lets be frank)

I guess I've had a different perspective on Englishness over many years through the people I know from overseas and I speak other languages too. I also went to a Catholic school (in England) which taught us about slavery and what happened in Northern Ireland. None of which was nice about the English (teacher was Irish). I'm grateful for these perspectives though as I wouldn't want to be brainwashed into being a blind patriot.

I have friends with strong Irish and Welsh roots and they have a real sense of identity to hold onto with it, ancestral languages that they're interested in and a feeling a pride.

If you're English, it's hard to feel like that unless you're in Tommy or Nige's crew, which makes me even less inclined towards patriotism tbh.

Does anyone else feel like this? It's a bit sad really. I'd love to at least be half something else to cling to that identity instead and ignore the English but.

Luckily my DC is only half English and has two other nationalities through DH, and is being brought up in Wales so will probably feel more Welsh. I'm also obtaining a passport from another country through DH soon and I'll be using that for all overseas travel as soon as I can so I can appear to be from there instead.

AiBU or do others feel like this? Being English just isn't cool.

Yes I was gonna say that

slavery has not been abolished

and is alive and well in England

I haven't done an ancestory test but I once did my family tree. I managed to go back over 200 years and on my dad's side literally everyone was from within 10 miles of the town where I was born in Yorkshire. On my mum's side there was one rogue line that came from the Midlands. 😱

So putting aside the chance that somewhere in the distant past a Viking had his way with a serving girl and gave birth to by 10 times great granddad/ma, I'm pretty sure I'm English through and through.

And I couldn't be happier about it. What an amazing country to call home! Sure we have dark patches in our history but what family doesn't?

The only thing I do regret is the outcome of that awful Brexit referendum, because as well as being a proud Yorshireman, Englishman and Briton, I am also a proud European.

The irony that this Article was written by Kenan Malik. A man born in India but sought British citizenship. He also wrote books on white supremacy. This is why I don’t trust news articles as they ALL have an agenda - left and right.

But honestly who cares who ended Atlantic slavery? None of us were born then and benefit do we get when we constantly looking to the past to self flagellate and cause division. Slavery is REAL today - it just happens in other countries but no one wants to talk about that.

Exactly so lucky that you can piss off and live in his country then.

Because I don't spend my whole day on MN and didn't see it.

Plus, it's personal choice what people contribute to. What is pathetic is you taking personal offense at something that a random individual that you don't know online having an opinion that differs to yours. Weird.

Good question!

My bf unfortunately experiences this a lot. It ia very unfair. However, it is not coming from a place of hatered. I mean, yes it can be. But in my experience it is the same group that are kinda anglophiles as well. I feel like a lot of it is coming from the UK being in the nees so much. It is a lot more prominent in a lot of European countries compared to other "colonialist" nations. And since UK media is so consumed app over people have this understanding that they are part of the culture and can say stupid shit. People have this idea that brits are always up for "banter" where as in fact they are being very offensive.

Onviosuly there are also very ignorant assholes judging UK for it's history but in my experience the majority has been very bad banter coming from the wrong impression if being "one of you".

👏👏

I understand that they are being indoctrinated. But even Russians in the UK (not all) seem to think that their war on Ukraine is legitimate.

That’s disgusting.

People - WOMEN - no less, from the USA chanting to support their country at a sporting event?

Disgraceful.

@Traballi I'm also obtaining a passport from another country through DH soon and I'll be using that for all overseas travel as soon as I can so I can appear to be from there instead.

DH's country of origin is Ireland, which is hardly outing.

It’s happening here still

and you have very much benefited from slavery of Africans - you live in one of the 7 richest countries in the world and all the safety and privilege that provides

white supremacy is real not an agenda

cant see the irony in him living here, he’s entitled to given what India did for the empire

no need to self flag - just acknowledge how we benefit and the history of that

As someone who grew up with anti-English parents, who was told the English hate me, whose father watches English matches to cheer the other side, I really am sick of anti-Englishness. It’s especially stupid coming from the English themselves. It’s also really damaging as you’re giving love of country and a sense of belonging over to the far right. Who wants to wallow and feel shit about themselves?

Obviously I’m not promoting jingoism and it’s good to know the good and the bad that went on in history and the state of current politics etc but your attitude from your post really annoyed me.

To state the obvious there are plenty of achievements that have come from England from every field. The concept of vaccines came from England. How many people’s lives have been saved from that?

English and proud of my history, my family, their hard work, fighting for the country I live in today. It is not perfect, but there is no country, or their people, who can say their history is perfect or without a crime against someone, somewhere.

@Traballi FFS I was honest wondering if this post was real

Find me a country that has nothing bad in its past. Name one.

Or do you want absolutely everybody on the planet to feel bad about their country?

I can cope with people saying that they feel humanity is a bit hopeless.

But blaming the ills of the world on the British or the English or whoever... I despair. I really do.

But don't all countries have tales of oppressors and colonialists if you really take a look?
Would you rather that we had been ruled by China for the last 500 years or by Iran would that make the guilt go away?
I don't get the white guilt involved with this sort of thinking, it seems kind of cringe to be constantly apologising for the past when there is a mix of good and bad as with every country.

The ferries leave the UK regularly....bye

What started out as intellectual posturing, humble bragging abd hubris from the intellectual left has infected ordinary people now. Sheesh! We have people like the OP who have been gaslit into feeling ashamed of existing. Others react really badly and double down out of defiance.

England and the English have been hugely consequential. Some of it glorious, some of it shameful. Like the rest of the world’s historical powers. The English weren’t perfect. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Get over it. This internalised shame is not healthy.

I say this as an immigrant who is not English.

P.S. Is this some sort of post-Protestant Christian transmogrification of the original sin concept? Is this a new channel that the English culture needs for expressing a sense of unearned shame?

Maybe look into the role the Manchester cotton workers played in supporting the abolition of slavery.
Let’s hear it for ordinary decent working class British people . (And the Battle of Cable Street in the East End - That’s history to be proud of )
Really ignorant to judge all English people on the basis of the way the ruling class behaved. The ruling class was generally exploitative in every country. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/01/05/linc-j05.html

Your observation from this thread is that there is contempt for the Irish? Interesting

I always think it's weird when people say they are proud of where they are from... Surely you can only feel proud of something you've had a hand in yourself?

I agree the British Empire and most others have a horrific record but none of it was my fault.

There is a history of British people being taken as slaves by Muslims, particularly a problem in coastal communities, if that makes you feel better. There's a couple of books you might like to read - The Forgotten Slave Trade by Simon Webb and White Gold by Giles Milton.

Just a bored journo probably

I know all that

I know both sides

and don’t hide from it or try to buffer the truth of the human degradation of the role of slavery in making this country rich by saying “oh but we abolished slavery”

You are choosing to focus on the negatives only. That's what's not cool, not your genetic heritage which honestly is neither here nor there.