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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Jury service expenses are ridiculous

265 replies

Dinosaurus86 · 29/12/2025 18:25

Posting here partly for traffic, partly because it is ridiculous and wondering if anyone has experience.

Have just been called for jury service. I am PT self employed. Have a one year old not in any formal childcare. I also have a just turned four year old who is in nursery for two full days and one further short one / week. The wording of my letter seems to suggest that you can get a maximum amount of £64/ day to cover both loss of earnings and additional childcare costs. Does anyone know if this is correct? Because it is less than even the full day rate for nursery before I even take any loss of earnings into account - and that is just for one child - no idea what I’d do about the younger one. We have some family but not enough to cover full time, and she isn’t used to being away from me. Not sure if I should attempt to defer or if will just have the same problems in a few months… help!!!

OP posts:
carchi · 30/12/2025 19:45

Bjorkdidit · 29/12/2025 18:45

You really don't. The whole process is a shambles. As well as the woefully inadequate expenses for childcare, travel and loss of earnings, they'll keep you waiting around for hours, if not days with no information and you're just expected to put up with it.

Plus most of the population are too stupid to follow the instructions of the judge about basing a decision only on evidence presented and not what they found by googling or 'how you could tell they did it by looking at them'.

Agree it's a complete waste of time. Loads of people sitting around for the whole day doing nothing. So many of the cases get sorted and never get to trial. I have done it three times now and only on one jury.

Sweetnbooksnradio4 · 30/12/2025 20:06

Definitely ask to defer. They are reasonable. I did it twice in London, many years ago and once in Bedford much later. I was pregnant the second time in London, but had such bad nausea and sickness they excused me.

It is interesting and worthwhile.

SwirlingAroundSleep · 30/12/2025 20:19

Dinosaurus86 · 29/12/2025 18:25

Posting here partly for traffic, partly because it is ridiculous and wondering if anyone has experience.

Have just been called for jury service. I am PT self employed. Have a one year old not in any formal childcare. I also have a just turned four year old who is in nursery for two full days and one further short one / week. The wording of my letter seems to suggest that you can get a maximum amount of £64/ day to cover both loss of earnings and additional childcare costs. Does anyone know if this is correct? Because it is less than even the full day rate for nursery before I even take any loss of earnings into account - and that is just for one child - no idea what I’d do about the younger one. We have some family but not enough to cover full time, and she isn’t used to being away from me. Not sure if I should attempt to defer or if will just have the same problems in a few months… help!!!

Tell them you’re breast feeding and will continue to do so, in line with WHO guidance until beyond 2 years old, so won’t be able to do it in a year either and they will cancel the whole thing - they will defer a year because of breast feeding but if you state that you will still be feeding in another year they just cancel it altogether - I got called for jury duty when my son was 6 weeks old and used this reason to get out of it. It was true but I was also relieved to have the excuse as I don’t think I would have mentally coped with sitting on jury duty.

Dinosaurus86 · 30/12/2025 20:20

Swampthing55 · 30/12/2025 07:59

I've done it three times,.and been called a fourth but I declined as it was too early (supposed to be a two year gap/.I loved it and am waiting for magistrates position to open up
I actually thought the expenses were generous and made money but I have insurance that covers my wage if I am unable to work due to sickness injury or other reason,.being self employed I think it's important to protect m
y earnings

What company do you have your insurance with? I’m looking into it at the moment (will ask to be excused this time).

OP posts:
FelixDoublyDelicious · 30/12/2025 20:22

@Limehawkmoth I agree. I was on a case on 2015 which was around 6 weeks long. We had massive binders of evidence and all wrote copious notes.
The note writing I believe enabled us to focus on what we were doing.
I remember when deliberating going back an forth over one piece of evidence until I finally got the link I knew was there.
I tried really hard to do what was right, it was quite emotional after as our decision made an impact on lives. Four out of five were found guilty

whatsit84 · 30/12/2025 20:31

My employer paid me my normal wage but I agree it’s insane to expect people who don’t get that to forgo being paid a large proportion of their wage/self employment income.

BigPurpleBookQueen · 30/12/2025 20:32

I did manage to get excused a few years ago as childcare with autistic son would have been a nightmare the court was very understanding.

i would have actually enjoyed jury service though.

Noodles1234 · 30/12/2025 21:18

Completely agree, it didn’t even cover the wrap around care and I would never have made it in time to collect them before the childcare facility closed as of the travelling time. This meant DH would have to take 2 weeks off work to cover. It’s not I don’t want to do it, but modern life unless you live within a 20 minute drive (inc rush hour times), for anyone with a young family forget it.

FellowSuffereroftheAbsurd · 30/12/2025 22:15

YANBU jury expenses not increasing with inflation is another joy of austerity, as is the fact that in some courts, many of the staff hearing these horrible cases day in and day out are agency staff on minimum wage being carrotted along on the promise that maybe, someday, when there is budget, they too can apply for a permanent role.

Though as we've seen, part of the reason for that is that people don't want their tax money going there so it's an unpopular push to put more money into it. People want their justice as cheaply as possible and we're all paying the cost.

Juries are one of those weird things that no one ever seems to question.

People question juries a lot as noticed in this thread.

Oddly, magistrates are questioned far less, even though they're also volunteers and the entire criminal system in England relies on them (large parts of it don't rely on juries, I can't speak for other countries).

Or that the 'tough on crime' Tories sold off a bunch of court houses and refused to fund updates to courts beyond their own pet projects (I live in an English county that does not have a single disability accessible court, some cases get delayed - because the defendant uses a mobility aid that cannot be accommodated in any docks so the case has to be transferred out of area. Great for the victims who will inevitably have to travel farther)

Or anyone? Why SE more likely to be out of pocket? It’s a genuine question - not being snarky as I’ve been SE too

Some employers cover the difference or simply pay wages in full so no loss of earnings is paid by the courts, self-employed are unable to do either.

There are also some employers who continue to break the law around this with forcing people to use annual leave or refusing to allow it, as it is difficult for many to push the issue with an uncooperative employer and not all get appropriate support from the courts on this issue.

Do you get a say in which cases you're assigned to? For example, it's a trial about noncery but you were a victim of that once, and really don't want to be exposed to it again. Are you able to decline? If not, fuck that.
What happens if you’re so traumatised by DA that you hate men. So if the defendant is male, you’d vote guilty regardless?

Juries are told before being sworn in what the charges are. Some judges will directly ask on those kinds of cases if anyone feels they cannot fulfil their affirmation/oath (I usually hear it on cases with sexual violence), otherwise jurors raise their hand before swearing in if there is an issue. The latter is not always clearly explained to jurors - and many find doing it in a full court unpleasant - which is why jurors are typically given jury note paper to write notes to be able to give them to the usher who passes them on to the judge.

I have had cases of jurors ranting to others about how all men are guilty and similar, other jurors made complaint to the jury officer who was able to remove them.

Do we really want jurors to be racist misogynists with poor critical thinking skills? Can a jury with such jurors ever deliver justice?

Do you really think there are no racist misogynist judges or barristers? Or judges that are really jaded from hearing hundreds of these cases to the point that they will always assume the worst?

Personally I’m very opposed to them. The fact that I as a tax payer have to pay jury service costs, usually just to have individuals wait around for days on end, plays a part. It’s inefficient.

It may be inefficient, I can see that, but it's still probably the most efficient part of the process.

I’d like to see a much leaner court system, 1-3 judges. That way some cases actually have a chance of not being constantly postponed with everyone’s time wasted, inc witnesses, lawyers, victims and police officers. It’s you and me that pay the costs of this, but it’s much more horrific if you’re a victim of a serious crime waiting for justice for 1-2 years

Jurors are not the reason cases are being postponed 99% of the time. The only time those kinds of delays are caused by jurors is if a jury has to be discharged for jurors' breaking the rules.

We already have those leaner courts in the Magistrates and for appeals. Those rely on Magistrates, who are volunteers. There is a national shortage and unlike jurors, there is no legal requirement for anyone to sit as a Magistrate. There is also a shortage of judges and barristers and court space - fully accessible and otherwise. These are a far bigger contributors.

Along with a shortage of professionals and magistrates and court rooms (both in the lack of literal not enough court rooms and court rooms that have had to be closed due to falling into disrepair), I've known prosecutors who can fairly reliably call when a defendant will plea on day 3 of trial based on how their barrister acts - there are different fees based on how long the trial goes and yes, some barristers do play that system no matter the impact on victims. See being jaded. Oh, and those barrister go on to become judges, some already sit as part time judges, so again - how much power do we want to put in so few hands?

The Leveson Report 2025 had many recommendations for dealing with the backlog - which in some parts of the country is about 5 years for bail cases - and the putting further limits on jury trials that the government and media are so focused on was not even among the main ways for dealing with the mess the system has gotten into largely caused by cutting as much to the bone and refusing to invest. They're only focused on cutting juries as they think it'll cut costs further while initiatives like fast track courts - booking a bunch of 1-3 day trials in a set time to clear them which is actually shows strong evidence of increasing the speed in which cases resolve even with juries - gets barely a mention so won't be funded properly to get the staff needed to make them sustainable.

I went to the Clerk of the Court but they aren't allowed to hear anything jurors say. It was absolutely ridiculous and I lost all faith in the system.

It's horrible how the court handled your situation. They should have informed you and others that if any jurors on your panel or otherwise have disclosed breaking their affirmation/oath that a jury note should be given to the usher to be passed the judge or to disclose to the jury officer who can go up the chain as well. There are many ways courts can handle that kind of thing, and you did the right thing by reporting it - they failed you and everyone by not getting that reporting to the right person to deal with it. Sadly I have known some clerks who act like that, so your story and that of others doesn't surprise me - saddens yes, but not surprised.

Wooky073 · 30/12/2025 22:38

I was called for jury service about 20 years ago - I had no child and my employer was supportive. But the expenses even then did not come close to covering the lost earnings. Fortunately the employer made up the shortfall and they took the hit on losing their employee for a week. If I were you I would defer it. Hopefully by the time they come back to you your children will be older and you will be in a better situation.

Lovethystupidneighbour · 31/12/2025 01:47

ContentedAlpaca · 29/12/2025 18:30

Yes it's that pathetic.
We need to keep juries though and I'm glad so many here would like to and would be able to do it without it causing as much hardship as someone in your circumstances.

No, they need to be scrapped. There’s a reason the defendents legal teams try to tug on heart strings. Because the general public are naive and quite often a bit stupid

EyeLevelStick · 31/12/2025 07:35

FellowSuffereroftheAbsurd · 30/12/2025 22:15

YANBU jury expenses not increasing with inflation is another joy of austerity, as is the fact that in some courts, many of the staff hearing these horrible cases day in and day out are agency staff on minimum wage being carrotted along on the promise that maybe, someday, when there is budget, they too can apply for a permanent role.

Though as we've seen, part of the reason for that is that people don't want their tax money going there so it's an unpopular push to put more money into it. People want their justice as cheaply as possible and we're all paying the cost.

Juries are one of those weird things that no one ever seems to question.

People question juries a lot as noticed in this thread.

Oddly, magistrates are questioned far less, even though they're also volunteers and the entire criminal system in England relies on them (large parts of it don't rely on juries, I can't speak for other countries).

Or that the 'tough on crime' Tories sold off a bunch of court houses and refused to fund updates to courts beyond their own pet projects (I live in an English county that does not have a single disability accessible court, some cases get delayed - because the defendant uses a mobility aid that cannot be accommodated in any docks so the case has to be transferred out of area. Great for the victims who will inevitably have to travel farther)

Or anyone? Why SE more likely to be out of pocket? It’s a genuine question - not being snarky as I’ve been SE too

Some employers cover the difference or simply pay wages in full so no loss of earnings is paid by the courts, self-employed are unable to do either.

There are also some employers who continue to break the law around this with forcing people to use annual leave or refusing to allow it, as it is difficult for many to push the issue with an uncooperative employer and not all get appropriate support from the courts on this issue.

Do you get a say in which cases you're assigned to? For example, it's a trial about noncery but you were a victim of that once, and really don't want to be exposed to it again. Are you able to decline? If not, fuck that.
What happens if you’re so traumatised by DA that you hate men. So if the defendant is male, you’d vote guilty regardless?

Juries are told before being sworn in what the charges are. Some judges will directly ask on those kinds of cases if anyone feels they cannot fulfil their affirmation/oath (I usually hear it on cases with sexual violence), otherwise jurors raise their hand before swearing in if there is an issue. The latter is not always clearly explained to jurors - and many find doing it in a full court unpleasant - which is why jurors are typically given jury note paper to write notes to be able to give them to the usher who passes them on to the judge.

I have had cases of jurors ranting to others about how all men are guilty and similar, other jurors made complaint to the jury officer who was able to remove them.

Do we really want jurors to be racist misogynists with poor critical thinking skills? Can a jury with such jurors ever deliver justice?

Do you really think there are no racist misogynist judges or barristers? Or judges that are really jaded from hearing hundreds of these cases to the point that they will always assume the worst?

Personally I’m very opposed to them. The fact that I as a tax payer have to pay jury service costs, usually just to have individuals wait around for days on end, plays a part. It’s inefficient.

It may be inefficient, I can see that, but it's still probably the most efficient part of the process.

I’d like to see a much leaner court system, 1-3 judges. That way some cases actually have a chance of not being constantly postponed with everyone’s time wasted, inc witnesses, lawyers, victims and police officers. It’s you and me that pay the costs of this, but it’s much more horrific if you’re a victim of a serious crime waiting for justice for 1-2 years

Jurors are not the reason cases are being postponed 99% of the time. The only time those kinds of delays are caused by jurors is if a jury has to be discharged for jurors' breaking the rules.

We already have those leaner courts in the Magistrates and for appeals. Those rely on Magistrates, who are volunteers. There is a national shortage and unlike jurors, there is no legal requirement for anyone to sit as a Magistrate. There is also a shortage of judges and barristers and court space - fully accessible and otherwise. These are a far bigger contributors.

Along with a shortage of professionals and magistrates and court rooms (both in the lack of literal not enough court rooms and court rooms that have had to be closed due to falling into disrepair), I've known prosecutors who can fairly reliably call when a defendant will plea on day 3 of trial based on how their barrister acts - there are different fees based on how long the trial goes and yes, some barristers do play that system no matter the impact on victims. See being jaded. Oh, and those barrister go on to become judges, some already sit as part time judges, so again - how much power do we want to put in so few hands?

The Leveson Report 2025 had many recommendations for dealing with the backlog - which in some parts of the country is about 5 years for bail cases - and the putting further limits on jury trials that the government and media are so focused on was not even among the main ways for dealing with the mess the system has gotten into largely caused by cutting as much to the bone and refusing to invest. They're only focused on cutting juries as they think it'll cut costs further while initiatives like fast track courts - booking a bunch of 1-3 day trials in a set time to clear them which is actually shows strong evidence of increasing the speed in which cases resolve even with juries - gets barely a mention so won't be funded properly to get the staff needed to make them sustainable.

I went to the Clerk of the Court but they aren't allowed to hear anything jurors say. It was absolutely ridiculous and I lost all faith in the system.

It's horrible how the court handled your situation. They should have informed you and others that if any jurors on your panel or otherwise have disclosed breaking their affirmation/oath that a jury note should be given to the usher to be passed the judge or to disclose to the jury officer who can go up the chain as well. There are many ways courts can handle that kind of thing, and you did the right thing by reporting it - they failed you and everyone by not getting that reporting to the right person to deal with it. Sadly I have known some clerks who act like that, so your story and that of others doesn't surprise me - saddens yes, but not surprised.

Do you really think there are no racist misogynist judges or barristers? Or judges that are really jaded from hearing hundreds of these cases to the point that they will always assume the worst?

Oh well that’s fine then. I can see now that because some judges are racist misogynists it doesn’t matter that some jurors are too. 🙄

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 31/12/2025 08:47

I work for a big company, so, they’d still pay me for attending JS.
But, what if a case was 6 weeks long??
Could they spare me for that long, though? I’m not sure how they’d respond to that question.

It’s very difficult for a smaller company to still pay employees for attending JS, but i wonder how many employers aren’t allowing people to ‘fulfil their civic duties’, by not paying their staff.

And i agree that most people are idiots, and decide the guilty verdict on principle.
Bias is impossible to overcome, as well. For some people it’s baked into their belief system.

As someone mentioned above, a lot of men simply can’t be trusted to sit on a jury regarding a rape case.
Is it plain misogyny, or are they ‘protecting’ their fellow man against what a lot of men see as generally spurious allegations?
I dunno. 🤷🏻‍♀️

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 31/12/2025 08:58

Bulbsbulbsbulbs · 30/12/2025 17:31

When I did Jury service two of the jurors said they wouldn't find the defendant guilty because they fancied his barrister and wanted him to 'win'. They wouldn't budge.

I went to the Clerk of the Court but they aren't allowed to hear anything jurors say. It was absolutely ridiculous and I lost all faith in the system.

Christ almighty that’s bad.

I used to work with the general public and they are largely buffoons.

ToffeePennie · 31/12/2025 09:11

I would like to serve on a jury but I will never be allowed to serve as I have relatives who work within the prison and police services.
The reason you don’t get “paid” as much is because it is classed as a civic duty and a chance to make a difference in society. The expenses are intended to cover travel, nothing else.

Springtimehere · 31/12/2025 09:19

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Muchtoomuchtodo · 31/12/2025 09:30

ToffeePennie · 31/12/2025 09:11

I would like to serve on a jury but I will never be allowed to serve as I have relatives who work within the prison and police services.
The reason you don’t get “paid” as much is because it is classed as a civic duty and a chance to make a difference in society. The expenses are intended to cover travel, nothing else.

Even serving police officers are eligible for Jury service

Rescuedog12 · 31/12/2025 11:22

Dinosaurus86 · 29/12/2025 18:25

Posting here partly for traffic, partly because it is ridiculous and wondering if anyone has experience.

Have just been called for jury service. I am PT self employed. Have a one year old not in any formal childcare. I also have a just turned four year old who is in nursery for two full days and one further short one / week. The wording of my letter seems to suggest that you can get a maximum amount of £64/ day to cover both loss of earnings and additional childcare costs. Does anyone know if this is correct? Because it is less than even the full day rate for nursery before I even take any loss of earnings into account - and that is just for one child - no idea what I’d do about the younger one. We have some family but not enough to cover full time, and she isn’t used to being away from me. Not sure if I should attempt to defer or if will just have the same problems in a few months… help!!!

When my ex boss asked me to help her whilst doing jury service, she had to fill in a form and put my daily rate ( school pick ups and drop offs) they also paid her train fare.But they wouldn't pay her car park money.( hence getting the train)

Paganpentacle · 31/12/2025 11:28

RandomUsernameHere · 29/12/2025 18:57

That’s ridiculous. I don’t really see how self employed people can be expected to do it for that amount of compensation.

Nobody can!
Full days 'compensation' isn't even 2 hours of pay... my employer paid my wages when I did it... 2 weeks only though- thank fuck it didnt go over that...

JenniferBooth · 31/12/2025 12:43

ToffeePennie · 31/12/2025 09:11

I would like to serve on a jury but I will never be allowed to serve as I have relatives who work within the prison and police services.
The reason you don’t get “paid” as much is because it is classed as a civic duty and a chance to make a difference in society. The expenses are intended to cover travel, nothing else.

Making a difference should not leave people at risk of being unable to pay their rent.

Im being evicted because i did jury service would make a great headline on the front of a paper though

Limehawkmoth · 31/12/2025 12:54

Bjorkdidit · 30/12/2025 03:39

Don't be under the illusion that its a nice environment to 'sit around reading a book and people watching'

There's not enough seats. There will be a TV blasting trash daytime TV. There will be people watching shit on their phones without headphones. The room will likely be too hot or too cold. There will be people constantly talking loudly and coming and going. The toilets will be horrible. You will have the opportunity to pay over the odds for poor quality refreshments. You will mix with a lot of people expressing views you disagree with. You will have to queue up and be searched every time you enter the building.

If you want to recreate the experience I suggest you go and sit in A&E on a Saturday night or in a regional airport on the first day of the school holidays.

In fairness, our jury lounge was actually ok. There wasnt any sound on tv, seats were ok, pretty big with sectioned off areas, so sound of people talking was fine. Overall it was pretty calm.

I think if you were only coming in on first day and then continually dismissed each day early you’d think it was a bit noisy. But after the morning chaos of selections, it settled down. Our jury tended to sit together for whole 3 weeks we were there, we played a lot of games togther, crosswords every day…mainly becuase we had so much wasted time not in court but kicking our heels in lounge.

i was pissed that you couldn’t take a sewing or knitting needle in - that might have helped! There was always a lot of knitting needle confiscated at security as people didn’t read blurb or thought they could get away with it. 🤦🏼‍♀️🤣

i think they must have refurbished the lounge fairly recently as it was in good nick.

but, take your point in a smaller less well maintained court it would be hospital like!

either way , I can complelty agree you really really don’t want to spend 2 or more weeks sitting in jury lounge being mostly bored witless, or resenting that you can’t earn any money, or seething at sheer stupid time wasting by courts, when you’ve only actually been in court for 3 hours that day and they’re telling you case will extend into possibly 4 weeks due to “slow progress”

Limehawkmoth · 31/12/2025 12:58

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Hmm, confused, most courts have multiple cases in different court rooms, and they’re all stopping or starting at different times. In our case a couple of initially selected people opted out after private discussion with court clerk , I assume becuase of link to sexual offence. But they weren’t dismissed form jury service. They were in court next couple of days and then served on jury on different case.

not sure why you imply that there was only one case in the entire court for two weeks! Was it a tiny court?

RandomUsernameHere · 31/12/2025 16:29

rainbowsandraspberrygin · 29/12/2025 20:40

Or anyone? Why SE more likely to be out of pocket? It’s a genuine question - not being snarky as I’ve been SE too

A lot of employees get full pay if called to do jury service and I wrongly assumed this was the case for all. Certainly at every company I’ve worked for it has been full pay.

Sharpzebra · 31/12/2025 16:49

What is this is this never heard of it 😳

rainbowsandraspberrygin · 31/12/2025 16:50

RandomUsernameHere · 31/12/2025 16:29

A lot of employees get full pay if called to do jury service and I wrongly assumed this was the case for all. Certainly at every company I’ve worked for it has been full pay.

Thanks for replying. I don’t think I do and like others would struggle with the pay they provide.

not been called yet so will cross that bridge if it arises. But no pay and a huge impact on the business.