I'm scared of my Angry 4year old DD

[Hiitsmeagain1]

Hi all
Not sure If I'm overthinking but my DD4 just turned has severe mood swings over nothing and everything.
For context she is much harder work then older two DD but I just assumed different father different genes.
DD4 father is not living with us currently. Not sure contextual or not.
DD4 hits DD10 over everything. Sh lashes out when she's in a mood and she will throw ruin whatever is in her vicinity. She screams and throws her toys on floor if something doesn't fit like she wants, rip books etc. Just now she screamed at me (like kat did in EE) for ruining her toys (I didn't and the toys were hiding under the blanket which I used on her duvet for extra warmth and tipped her toys on the floor in response.
I do worry when DD4 does this as it's scary and even my older two find it scary not funny as you would when younger sibling has a tantrum.
i worry if this is a sign of the type of adult she may become. I try everything to disciple her and remind her of how she should behave - we talk about the colour monster a lot, I offer hugs I sit with her and remind her how we need to behave and how we don't get angry like she does and we need to talk etc etc. the next day exactly the same over nothing she will just switch. She does say sorry mummy as soon as she's calm and asks if I'm still her best friend to which I reassure her I'm always her best friend even when she's angry.
AIBU to be worried or is this normal?
My older two did not behave or react like this so not sure if I'm dealing with it right.

She may be masking at nursery, which is why she is having more meltdowns at home.

Also, how a 4-year-old acts doesn't indicate what they will be like as an adult :)

I think at 4 years old this is a bit late but not unusual and different kids have temper tantrums at different ages - someone once said to me you start to worry if they aren't getting better (ie many less temper tantrums) by 5. But then both my younger siblings had temper tantrums beyond 5 (I never really had them) and as older children/teens/adults they were/are perfectly normal at least in that regard.

My almost 7 year old DD is like this.
She never grew out of tantrums and will fly off the handle endless times every single day. If she is angry she will throw whatever is closest or hit whoever is near her. She doesn’t care about consequences. She tells me when she has calmed down that she doesn’t know why she acts like that but she can’t control.

She’s perfect at school but I’m certain she’s masking. Community paediatrician doesn’t suspect autism due to her communication and play skills (with her twin sister) but she has been referred for assessment anyway just in case she’s masking really well at school.

You have my sympathy. It’s hard when your small child will physically attack you. It’s like being terrorised in your own home.

Her behaviour doesn't sound neurotypical.

They sound like autistic meltdowns, and if they are, the naughty step will do more harm than good.

It could be neurotypical and responding to trauma. It’s why it’s important that OP gives some more context about her father and why he’s not there at the moment.

I have responded twice already explaining that dad is not living here with us but sees her more regularly than when he was. He's a good dad. Gives all his attention to DD when with her.

sounds like she may be neurodivergent. I have adhd and this exploding over smallest things sounds like that - usually stems from being overwhelmed.

I would speak to nursery/school and ask senco to observe and explain your concerns. You could film her behaviour and book an appointment with GP.
In terms of managing it, the best way to see results is to manage her environment. So try to have a fairly consistent routine, lots of notice about changes. Look for signs she is getting overwhelmed and try to intervene/distract. Encourage your older children to recognise if she’s struggling and take a step back. Try to find things that soothe/regulate her and make sure she has access everyday, try to make sure she has down time without her siblings as she may be getting overwhelmed stimulated.
Do some techniques for managing emotions, deep breaths, counting to five, punching /squeezing a cushion. Try to direct her to these techniques if she’s getting angry or after to calm down. Try to remain calm when she’s in overwhelm.

Yes, that's what I meant!

remind her how we need to behave and how we don't get angry

It’s ok to feel anger, it’s what you do with it that matters.

Is she able to communicate well? Can she recognise her emotions?

But WHY isn't he living with you?

How did that happen? When did it happen?

It's all important...

This is a 4 year old, at the end of the longest hardest term, all the Christmas excitement, all the lack/change of routine, the over tiredness all has an impact...
So if on top of that dad suddenly left 3 weeks ago because mummy and daddy were shouting lots.... Or was it a long time ago and all amicable...or is it a temporary thing? ...

Knowing the context if him."not living with you" might help explain a fair bit.

No dad and I have been living separately over 18 months - he stays over some nights to put her to bed etc. not sure how you convinced he left 3 weeks ago?

I just saying, we had nothing.

Why is he coming to your house to put her to bed and staying over?

Surely that's just confusing to her?

You say he doesn't live there.... Yet he does to her little eyes...

Fucking hell.

Maybe I shall smack your backside for that comment and see if it is a suitable response to your shitty comment...

aside from your daughters angry outbursts, how else did she present?

My 6yo DD is exactly the same with the anger and demand avoidance. We tread on eggshells around her all day.

She’s perfect in school. No issues at all. I’ve have several meetings with them and feel stupid because they don’t see anything wrong.

At home she’s a perfectionist. If she’s drawing and a line feels off she will scream, tear the paper, throw the pens and storm off. She hates any kind of competition - riding her scooter with siblings, building Lego etc. Throws the scooter and storms off in the middle of the street if she perceives the sibling doing better than her or goes in front of her. Will lose the plot if she’s building Lego next to a sibling doing the same. (Different sets) but goes mental if sibling is a page further than her.

She wants all the attention and loves being the best at things. Low attention span for sit down activities.

She’s a sensory seeker - rocks back and forth on the sofa and headbangs to fall asleep.

Edited to add: she has always had the same morning and bedtime routine but she fights it tooth and nail at every step.

Anyway, GP referred to paediatrician because I couldn’t cope with her meltdowns any longer. Long story short - she doesn’t think autism because she was communicating well and playing with her twin during the appointment. But completely shut down the idea that it might be ADHD.

Shes been referred to the ND team just in case she’s really good at masking.

I think you've got an over stimulated, over tired confused little girl.

Stop the overnight stays by dad. He gets to put her to sleep when she's at his. All it's saying to her is "dad sometimes lives with us, sometimes doesn't" and it's confusing, especially if it happens randomly and not on set nights.

Give her a natural and actual consequence for hitting. Not just being shoved away and forced to apologise.

Imagine you're so tired, most and confused you reach breaking point and throw something in anger and the person you love the most in the entire world, the person you seek for comfort and reassurance... Pushes you away and shuts the door and then makes you apologise... And then repeats the cycle.... Would it help you?

That's a good thing then. So there is nothing in her environment that would explain this.

Could you work with her father to keep an "explosion diary" for a while. Note down every wild outburst; time and what preceeded it to see if you can find a pattern.

It sounds like this is something that she doesn't control. You feel afraid but I bet she feels even more afraid. It's scary to be taken over by strong feelings you can't control and act in a way you then regret. I would not punish her at this point but rather help her to navigate her feelings in the aftermath. You can show her a bottle of coke that you shake and then open and ask her if that's how she feels when she lashes out. Talk with her and ask what would help when she loses control ; does she want to be held/left alone?

Make it clear to her that even though you understand that she can't control her feelings she must control her actions. If she feels like punching someone she can punch on her pillow. You can hold it up for her so that she can have a go at it if she wants. Try to make it a joint effort, she must understand that you're on her team and that you will find ways to work on this together.

If nothing gives see a therapist who could help you out. Just remember that she's 4, probably terrified and ashamed and she needs love, support and ofcourse boundaries. But no punishment for things she can not control.

Why would you HIT A CHILD?

There's literally no reason to hit a child.

You'd be the first to rbe upset if someone smacked you for any tiny misdemeanor.

You wouldn't go " ah, fair cop, I needed that and it will definitely stop me losing my shit ever again, what a fantastic way to teach me how to deal with my emotions in.a sensible way"

Oh my goodness this sounds so familiar bar the rocking back and forth. Especially the competitiveness and wanting to be the best and ruining her stuff when she feels she's not winning or it's not good enough. How did you get the referral?

Honestly...it won't make her behave.

Did you get smacked once in life as a small child and then magically learned to be perfectly well behaved after?