Rude 5 years old l. at my wits end!

[RealReginaPhalange]

How do you deal with rude 5 year old boy? I am just fed up. He CAN be polite and usually knows whats rude but its been going on for so long. He has many good moments but i would say same amount of bad moments. While some things are normal at his age i dont think i am asking for too much to for example say “good morning“ to someone we know while walking to school. Its his birthday, i had a conversation with him how to be polite and say thank you when people call to wish him happy birthday. His grandmom just called and he got upset because she asked how is he feeling, if he is still coughing (been pretty ill whole week), didnt want her to sing happy birthday, didnt want her to wish him anything, just covered his face and didnt engage. It was same last year so its not a new behaviour.

its usually like that when a family member call me and want to say at least “hi” to him (no family nearby so contact via phone is often, but i never push him to sit in fromt of the phone and talk, small steps, like hello, rather than asking for too much and he sometimes on a good day is fine but i have to have endless conversations about manners)

there is always something every day, i could go on and on but i am just upset that i spoke to him about it and he was so bluntly rude to my mom and i snapped (after we ended the call). Now i feel guilty for snapping on his birthday but so angry i cant find the way to change it. Conversations, taking privileges away like tv (although he doesnt watch much), good behaviour reward chart, you name it…

what do i do now?

Stop making him speak to people.

I thought you were going to say he was rude to you, but it appears he's only 'rude' when you put him in a stressful situation. Stop doing it and the rudeness will stop. Ask him if he wants to speak to them and if he says no, leave it.

Your expectations are too high. Your child isn’t rude, he is a normal 5 year old.

It’s his birthday. You leave it. Today really is not the day for life lessons. When you say he was “bluntly rude” to his grandmother, what did he do? Or did he just decline to say hello? He’s five - he doesn’t have much agency, so you need to let him know that it is important to Granny that he says hello, but that’s all he has to do. Does he perhaps feel ignored when you’re on a call? That might be a trigger for poor behaviour. We all lose it with our DC sometimes and then feel bad afterwards - but you really won’t encourage him to become sociable by snapping at him! And five is well young to “appreciate” being sung to, or to have to talk about things he’s not interested in. Just leave it for a bit. I can’t say as a child I was ever required to say “Good morning” to anyone - if my mother wanted to greet her friends, that was up to her, but why would a child want to engage? You are expecting an only just five year old to behave like a much older child.

Sounds like he doesn't want to be the focus and center of attention. Thats social skills not bad behaviour. He's 5. Give the kid a break. If he has to communicate with family really just by phone its difficult. 5 year olds just want to run about and play.

If you face time maybe try just letting your mum watch him, ask him to just say hi then leave him to it. Yabu with your expectations sorry.

@Alexadidzammomarryjackie it was only the fraction of him being rude, the latest situation. He is rude to me or his dad as well. To other people who visit, when we go and visit.

ok, you’re right that it can seem rude if he’s not talking to people when you ask/demand. But it sounds like it’s making him uncomfortable. He’s only just 5 and in 6 months time or 2 years time he might be the chattiest little boy on the phone or whatever.
You need a little strategy like ‘Nana is in FaceTime, Alfie, can you give her a wave’ then let him go.

is it just these interactions? Or is there another way you’re perceiving him as rude? I think he’s just either shy or a busy little boy that doesn’t want to talk right now. Just set a good example, and don’t make it a massive deal, it’ll turn it into a pattern and a source of stress each time.

As a footnote, it’s ok to be quiet, it’s ok to be shy. A high five or a wave is fine too. 2 out of 3 of my kids were painfully shy at this age and behaved in a similar way. They were never forced to speak and I’d say ‘oh she takes a while to warm up’ or whatever. They now don’t actively seek to talk to people but they’re extremely polite.

What are other examples of him being rude apart from not wanting to speak to people sometimes? (Which isn’t rude btw, that’s so normal for a 5 year old)

If he’s been ill all week then that would be a contributing factor. I don’t want to speak to people when I’m ill. Sounds like the poor things just really out of sorts.

This isn't rude. My son is now 11 and just been diagnosed ASD. One standout thing was he struggled to speak to people. Even his friends at school. We'd be walking through the playground and all his friends would be calling hello and he'd literally act like they didn't exist. He also has no social smile which sometimes means he is expressionless. I used to, and still do, alot of speaking for him in these situations, so I would wave hello, say thank you, etc. I will also tell people he's not very chatty today. Your child is only 5, underlying reasons or not, he's not being rude. You model the behaviour for him, not by insisting he speaks when he feels uncomfortable but by saying all the pleases and thank yous and hellos when he is unable to.

I think people’s expectations of children are so low now days. You’re asking him to just say thank you to a known family member for some birthday wishes. I don’t think that’s unreasonable for a 5 year old. Children should be practising these things at a young age. Children in my class (9 and 10) are so incredibly rude - never say please or thank you, ignore me when I say good morning or goodbye etc. I would never have done that to my teachers/family when I was younger.
it is absolutely okay to be shy, but managing a little “thank you” on a phone call should be an expectation.

I realized months ago maybe i was asking for too much so i just stopped. Its like when grandmom was ill, i have a conversation with him that we should call and check how is she feeling, so we call together and he just refuses to say anything, even hello back. I dont think i push to have a conversation with anyone but mainly basic manners and often i dont bother him at all. When he is occupied, watching tv or something i dont expect him to stop and come to the phone or to multi task.

i always make sure he is not ignored. She called today, and we didnt chat, she wanted to speak to him and wish him happy birthday so i gave him the phone and told him who and why is calling (mind we had the conversation earlier about it) and he shouted no and covered his face and was just rude.

thanks anyway, i know i messed up by snapping at him today, i just try so hard and when it happens (rarely) i always apologise and explain, when something good happens we also say thank you to him etc to model the behaviour. We dont argue in front of him, when we get upset over something silly as it is sometimes we make sure to also say sorry to each other. Its not like he doesnt have good examples at home

What is he doing/saying to be rude to you and his dad? Shouting/swearing/not doing as he's told need a consequence, not wanting to talk or greet people doesn't matter. Take the pressure off and stop with the endless lectures - they don't work and often have the opposite effect. Your little boy is only 5, he has many years ahead to learn all the 'adult' social skills.

I will reply to all later today ♥️ not disappearing

He is not rude he is shy.

I agree that your examples are too similar. He doesn’t like talking to people he doesn’t feel comfortable to talk to.

I lived away from my family when my dc were little and the FaceTimeimg was difficult. It’s just awkward for them to sit there and have a conversation with a person that they don’t see that often. How’s school and all that jazz. It’s not a real relationship. We ended up having to play games to take the pressure off and to have a focus.

I don't always feel up to interacting with people. I have the option to stay at home and ignore the phone. Your child doesn't have that option, he needs to be constantly on ready for you to force the phone on to him for him to talk to others. I'd hate being in his position.
You need to let him have his own space and not force him into interactions he isn't comfortable with. If you continue to force this you will raise him to be a people pleaser unable to put in boundaries.

It sounds like he is shy, not rude. Getting cross with him, punishing and trying to force him, will only stress him out more, and make it feel even more difficult for him to talk. If he hardly talks to anyone at all, look into selective mutism.

I think you are putting too much pressure on him And it’s now a vicious circle.

Make excuses for him and don’t put him in that position for a while. He’s 5. He’ll change when he’s older but if you continue as you are, his social anxiety is likely to get worse not better.

I think your expectations are too high and possibly you are overly fixated on good manners (which are important). Stop trying to force your DS to speak on the phone or FaceTime. Perhaps you could trying recording a little video instead - just a quick thank you granny for the present or hope you’re feeling better soon. Or he might prefer to just draw a little picture for granny and you could send a photo of it. Or a voice note.

Your DS doesn’t need to say good morning to people he meets as he walks to school, very few children do.

If he knows and does say please and thank you at his age, the rest will come.

I would leave interaction that is live for now - also it can be that the person on FT looks different to a 5 year old meaning they are unsure. If this is important to you then pre- record a quick video waving or saying hello & share it via what’s app etc at a happy simple time - at a park shall we show X you going down the slide ? Then if consent film it, then there is an actual activity to talk about. Granny etc can say I saw how fast you were on the slide etc.

But the previous poster who talked about agency, has such a good point - if you say do you want to say hello to X then do it anyway it is confusing and undermining his own choice & boundaries.

Also ask is the perceived rudeness to your mum, triggering cause you feel judged by her etc? Next time she wants to say hello, advocate for him, “you know he doesn’t like talking on the phone yet, but he says hi” or similar.

What other behaviour is worrying you? Kids can be blunt, honest & compared to our standards can come across as rude.

Thank you all. I am taking on board everything you say. Some things you have mentioned are very valid points, but i am already very cautious about them - such as not pressuring him to call or to talk, I sometimes ask first if he says he doesn’t want to then fine, or i just let him be and we call with his baby brother, or i call by myself. My mom also us great with him and ask age appropriate questions he might be interested to answer, it does work sometimes. my in laws on the other hand are completely different and are not capable to engage with him, so i dont push him at all. I never embarrass him in front of others by scolding him in any way. All the conversations are between us.

He is like that with other people and us too sometimes. I understand he can be shy but if its a close person and he does not seem to be shy around them there is no reason not to say hello back, or answer question when people visit us or we visit them (although we have very limited group of people we see in person and our families are abroad so phone contact is often). Telling others to go away, go back to your house when i see all he gets is love and attention.

he doesn’t listen sometimes when being asked, tell us no a lot, i wont clean, i wont pick up the toys, i wont it, your breakfast is disguisting (new fav word) and i am fully aware some of those are due to his age. He is not always like that and we have our way with him to achieve what we need/want to achieve but obviously he is still little child so we let all this things go. Not everything requires a conversation or consequence.

its just rudness to other people, and how he talk to us or others, the tone and shouting i can no longer deal with and i find myself snapping more but its not a right way, especially with him as he is very sensitive.

everyone is doing their own thing, he says “can someone help me with this”, his dad then asks “what do you need help with”, and he just has this rude tone and shouts “WITH THIS HERE, DONT YOU SEE, IT DOESNT WORK, WITH THIIIIIIIIS” - very hard to describe without hearing the tone and constant shouting to us and others. I know kids get upset but this is just all the time, as if everything and everyone is aggrevating him.

@welcometothe10pigpigpen exactly my point.

i might be pushing too much, even though I backed off long time ago, and he might be getting too many “lectures”, regardless if its just a breeze conversation or the actual lecture, i will cut him some more slack amd reevaluate if we are just being too much

Not wanting to speak to family members he barely knows isn't being rude. That's being a normal 5yo.

Some 5yos absolutely would chat on the phone for ages with someone happy to listen and ask the right questions, but by no means all 5yos by any stretch.

You have to remember that 5yos are very much "out of sight, out of mind". These are close family relations to you, but to your 5yo they are disembodied voices on the phone. He doesn't know them.

I remember our yearly visits to see our cousins when my sister and I were children. One of our cousins was a little girl the same age as me. When we got together, we'd have an absolute WHALE of a time - loved every minute. But I can hand on heart say, from one visit to the next, I genuinely didn't give her a single, solitary thought. I remember it blowing my mind when I learnt that she also went to school, and was even in the same school year as me! She only existed in the couple of locations we ever met up in.

I think maybe you've got into a negative cycle where he struggles with his social skills and then you draw attention to his struggles which further damages his social confidence/willingness to engage. Then he finds talking to people/phone calls/visits stressful because he knows it's likely to be followed by you explaining that he isn't good enough. So he's even more likely to be stressed/avoidant which means you're even more likely to lose your temper/lecture him and so on and so on.

If he already doesn't like phone calls think of the impact of having a lecture before and being shouted at after. You're making excessive negative connotations around something he already didn't like.

I would back off.

You still need to teach him good social skills of course, but do this through modelling rather than lectures/pushing him to do something he doesn't want to. For example, you can tell him "Grandma isn't feeling well so I'm going to call her and see how she is". Leave it there. He now knows it's good practise to call someone and ask how they are. Do the call in the same room, but leave him doing what he wants, if he comes over to say Hi then afterwards you can tell him "Grandma loved it when you came over and said Hi". And that's it. Low stress. Low pressure. If he doesn't join in, update him about how Grandma is "Grandma said she's feeling much better" and that's it. No "and she would have liked it if you said hello". No stress. No guilt.

He does need to learn to say Thank You for gifts and so on. I would give him the option of a phone call, writing a letter, making a card, drawing a picture etc. He needs to say thank you, he doesn't need to do it only in your preferred medium. Gratitude is gratitude, it doesn't matter if it's a phone call or a letter or a drawing. If he has letter tiles maybe he can spell out Thank You and you can take a photo and send it. Or he can hold a sign that he's. made saying Thank you and you take a picture. Or maybe he'd be more comfortable recording a video where he says Thank You that you could send. The thank you isn't optional, but when and how he expresses it can be. You're still teaching him good manners.

At home, with you and DH, I would expect him to say please and thank you. Make sure you're modelling this. Gentle reminders. In terms of his tone, I would ignore his request and ask him to try again in a kinder/gentler voice. I would only respond to his requests when he asks nicely. Do make sure you're modelling this though. It sounds like you're both quite irritated with him. It's possible he's learning to be irritated with you from how you are with him.

I always ask DD if she’d like to say “hi” or “good morning”. If she does, great, if not, that’s fine.

I don’t speak to people if I don’t want to, for whatever reason, I don’t expect my kids to do it either.

@zingally they are the closest people to him, but otherwise i agree.

@NuffSaidSam i think you are right, i will go according to your advice. It translates exactly what is happening lately at home