Unsure what to do about my mum - feel like she needs to move

[LostieLucy]

My mum is a wonderful woman, she’s now in her early 80s and she is now struggling with her physical health, she has arthritis and often times struggles with walking distances or stairs.
30 years ago my father died, my mum packed up her life and moved to central London, small flat but perfectly suitable for her. She loves it there, mansion blocks above shops, always some hustle and bustle about. When she was younger she was seldom home, a lovely social life, lots of time at museums etc. and she grew quite fond of going to church.
Now many of her friends have gone into care homes or moved to be close to family, she still has some she calls or writes to but she is hardly socially active.
We opted to hire her a cleaner who goes twice a week and she has got the hang of ordering shopping online.
Her building however has no lift, she’s on the first floor and can just about manage the stairs but I fear it’s only a matter of time until she can’t or has a fall. We are also quite far away, down in Sussex, my brother even further up in the Lake District.
A little over a year ago the most wonderful couple moved in across from her, one of them works from home and is always happy to help but I feel bad for them, the woman is maybe only 25, anytime my mum needs help with something she calls on her, be it getting her little shopping trolley up the stairs, taking out rubbish etc.
She’s not willing to cook anymore, I think she worries as she can’t forget she’s put something in the oven. I order her meals from a company who deliver meals that can just be put in the microwave and she is quite happy with that.
She busies herself most of the day with reading, knitting or watching the news.

Here is the issue this week her lovely neighbours are going home. My mum called me last night in quite the tizzy, upset, how will she get her rubbish down, she doesn’t like doing the stairs too much, how will she get her shopping trolley up, what if there is some sort of emergency (in the past she has called on them when she had a leak from the flat above for example). Considering they have only been there a year she seems to have entirely forgotten how to live without them. Not only do I think this is unfair on her neighbours (they never accept money but my mum does get them gifts from time to time and got them a larger gift at Christmas), but also just no way to live. She doesn’t need to be housebound.
I’ve asked her to consider selling but it’s always met with pure refusal, I’m not suggesting she has to leave London or even central London but maybe finding a ground floor property or somewhere with a lift, she refuses. It’s gotten to the stage where she only leaves the house maybe 2 times a week, once for mass and another time to do some shopping (she likes to go out to buy fruit and veg, bread etc.) but even with shopping she’s started asking the neighbours to pick her up some bits.
She seems rather adamant that she will die in the flat. I have asked about what she will do when the stairs are beyond her, she has told me deliveries and if she ever needs it carers in the home (she has lots of money put away so would be able to afford it).

AIBU to think she really needs to think pragmatically, she could have 20 years left! This is now way to live! Or do I need to respect that she is happy as she is and leave her to it, even if it means I spend every day fearing she’s fallen down the stairs?

Yes you would feel awful if she had an accident. But what you should do about it I can't say I'm afraid. Maybe look into getting her a falls pendant for now.

.My mum is in a similar situation and I also don't know how to deal with it but I know something needs to change. (I've been to look round several care homes recently, no idea how to convince my mum but I'm expecting her moving out will happen this year). Nobody likes change and few elderly folk are happy with the idea that they need to be in a better or safer environment.

The main thing I would say you should do is to get yourself put on record as someone her GP will talk to. At some point you may need to suggest she visits a memory clinic.

Sorry I can't be more help. Best wishes:)

Can you or mum pay for a part time carer to go to the shops and church with her, to relieve the burden on the neighbours and provide the support she needs?

My MIL is like this. She lived in a flat 2 stories up with no lift and was adamant she was never going to move but then was diagnosed with a lung condition, still refused a move until she declined rapidly and had to move in with her sister.

It's now fallen to my husband to pack up and sell her house and deal with everything as she can't make it back up there, it's very frustrating that she had years to plan for this and buried her head in the sand. I personally don't think my husband was forceful enough as he didn't want to upset her.

You can't make anyone do anything they don't want to buy I would be laying out what is going to happen if she has a fall with nowhere suitable to go home to.

Sounds like she needs to start spending some of that money on a daily carer to get rid of rubbish, move the trolley etc. it’s very unfair on the neighbours.

If she has a carer to go shopping and check on her each day that will help.

I really admire her and I hope she gets what she wants, to die at home.

hire a carer/PA to go out with her 2- 3 times a week, to take her shopping, take her to places (maybe in an electronic wheelchair - she could do museums again, go round the park).

this is what the money is FOR. She’s so lucky to have it so she can spend it on making the quality of her life better.

she may be now too set in her ways/too old to leave but there’s a few in our church who live in the care home (there are also independent flats, it’s just you can move into the nursing care part when you need to) round the corner from me. They’ve found a new lease of life as there’s communal space for yoga teachers/art teachers/group activities and they’re now all friends.
Honestly I’m moving there before it’s too late for me, there’s loads to do and they’ve all got the electronic wheelchairs so they can go shopping in M and S food round the corner, great quality of life. Also in London btw but the depths for your mum of zone 2

Sounds like 99% of the old people I have come into contact with, stubborn, awkward and won’t do what’s best for them. Basically they have gone back to being like toddlers.
Sorry op not very helpful, it generally takes an incident to change anything as while they have capacity you can’t force them to do anything.

It's very difficult but if your mum is deemed to have capacity, you can't force her to move. You can gently try and make her see that relying on her neighbours so much is unfair and they have their own lives to lead, it's not their responsibility to look after her. Tell her if she were to move nearer you, she'd be able to get out and about much more as it sounds like she is becoming quite isolated. If she continues to refuse to entertain the idea of moving, could you help her put daily carers in place?

Some of this sounds logistical - the cleaner who visits twice a week can take the rubbish out, for example. And getting someone in to take her out weekly (someone from church, on a paid basis?) might help. And a pendant alarm.

Some sounds more psychological - can she physically get out for a walk (without her trolley), see well enough?

I’d help if I were her neighbours but I would also be wondering where tf her family was.

The neighbours are soon going to get pissed off... helping with this, with that... now someone is suggesting a fall alarm - you need someone nearby to respond to the first phone call. Can imagine who will be asked. I have been happy in the past to help neighbours with no one. But neighbours with family... hmmmm, be wary of taking advantage of them.

There is also the old adage of "if you don't use it, you lose it". Stairs are not always the enemy. If you use stairs, your leg muscles keep working, circulation is better, balance is better, muscle atrophy is reduced. Too many people move to bungalows etc and their physical health declines.

What plans have been made, or can be made as a family? That don't rely on the repeated kindness of neighbours.

Cleaner would probably be happy to do the rubbish.

more generally sounds like she needs a carer.

She won’t move unless/until there is some sort of crisis.

Id suggest a daily care visit, maybe just half an hour most days but a longer visit a couple of times a week to take her out to the shops. You’ve then got daily eyes on.

And definitely a falls pendant, with you as primary contact not a neighbour. They will call the emergency services if you can’t help.

Yes I often see jobs for a few hours a week for a PA for disabled people. Be careful to use an agency or vet them properly plus a falls pendant is also worthwhile as a compromise

Sussex and the Lake District. Not everyone lives close to their parents.

Agree. Many older people won’t consider how their choices impact on everyone around them because they’re fixated on dying somewhere specific, or on the illusion of ‘independence’ (which basically comes down to others having to facilitate their lives).

That sounds harsh, I know, but it’s borne of the enormous frustration of trying to care for family members who’ve selfishly insisted on doing things their way with zero acknowledgment that ‘their way’ comes at the expense of everyone around them.

Sadly it usually takes an illness, fall or crisis to precipitate a change of mind, and unfortunately OP there’s not much you can do until then except worry yourself sick about it.

I'd be concerned about her mental state. It's easy for relatives to think that everything is ok if they are only exchanging pleasantries over the phone and aren't seeing her regularly.
"Hi mum, how are you"
"Oh I'm fine, the weather's not been great".
Maybe her cognition has declined more than you realise? Leaving the oven on and an inability to navigate her way around problems or see bigger issues, also inflexibility of thought are sometimes indicators of bigger concerns. Can she do puzzles? When did you last observe her in the kitchen? Try asking her questions re: current affairs.
This was my day job for many years and I used to be amazed at how many relatives lacked the awareness re how poorly their relatives was actually functioning.
I'd suggest having a conversation with her about lasting power of attorney and getting that sorted quickly. Unfortunately for you, if she is deemed to have "mental capacity" to make her own decisions, there really isn't much you can do at this point other than try to advise her against "unwise decisions".
FWIW, I agree with the others about getting a carer in, if she will accept that.

This is why when me and DH downsize/move abroad in a few years we will future proof it. Unfortunately all too often by the time older people NEED to move its too much for them, I saw this with my Mum. My Aunt bought a bungalow and when my Mum expressed surprise because she "didn't need one" my Aunt replied she didn't YET
I think you have told your Mum what you think and perhaps you can offer some solutions (if you haven't already) but she will have to make the decision herself

As others have said, she needs daily care visits to support with all the things she now struggles with.
Her neighbours sound lovely but must be getting really fed up
She also needs a fall alarm (and needs to wear it!)
Make sure you have POAs in place

If she's very lucky she will end her days there but expirence tells me otherwise

I’d be quite direct with her. Explain it’s unreasonable to rely on the neighbours. They could move away, say they can’t help anymore, be forced to be in an office every day instead. Try to encourage her to accept help from a carer. There are lots of people who like doing such work self employed. I know a couple of school mums who do it during school hours. Short but frequent visits/work works very well for them. They are properly DBS checked and such like. But it’s nicer to have one person you get to know instead of random carers each time, which I think puts a lot of people off the idea of being a carer.

I have an elderly friend who is largely incapacitated after recent knee surgery that didn’t go well. She has found a lady in her early 60s who comes round five days per week for a few hours at a time (money isn’t an issue for them admittedly).

I would want to start laying the groundwork in case she becomes more open to the idea of changing something. But I think encouraging a sale will be met with such a staunch ‘no’ that she may disengage with you. Try to go for a softer middle ground…

I would say she definitely needs to move to a nearby retirement flat so she has easy access but doesn’t leave her community. The rent is high for these but it will give her independence in her last decade and if she releases the value of a London property she will probably be able to afford it fine until her death

First and foremost please sort out power of attorney if that is not already done. That is the single most important thing you can do.

You need to leave her to it. I've been through this with three lots of relatives and there really is limit to what you can do - all of them considered moving, but none of them actually did. It was just too much disruption.

As time goes on things will inevitably change for the worse. She will get less mobile, she may develop cognitive problems. But she seems to be aware of that and is planning to get shopping delivered and accept carers. If the point comes where she cannot cope at home any longer, realistically the next move would probably be to a care home.

In the short term, for the minor things she struggles with, I'd suggest getting a carer (for companion care) twice a week. My mother had companion care for a while and the carer took her out shopping or to the hairdresser/optician, for a walk round the park etc. That would take a lot of the work away from the neighbours.

Have a look at retirement developments (for instance, by McCarthy and Stone). She can buy her own flat, but many also have a communal lounge for socialising, and they are designed so that if she needs more help in the future, it's easy (built-in call systems etc). Have a look yourself first, and if any if them look good to you, get her to go and look with you. Good luck. If all else fails, contact the management of where she lives now to see if a stairlift could be fitted.

Look at local care-at-home agencies. Someone a couple of times a week to keep on top of shopping and rubbish and maybe changing bedding if that is difficult. Then she can potter around and do basic chores herself while she is able.

I have a similar set up with an older neighbour and we are more than happy to help. She is never a burden, she’s nice company and we are glad to be able to make her life easier. If anything I’d say I think of her almost as my family now. I even change her bed once a fortnight as she can’t manage it herself anymore. She makes me the most amazing Victoria sponges in return 😀

Your mum’s neighbours may be more than happy and although you can’t rely on that forever and the carer sounds like a good idea too - it’s worth a chat with them.