To not agree with how some people make their money, specifically landlords and letting agents?

[RealNavyEagle]

I’m not saying every landlord or agent is evil, before anyone jumps in. But I do think there’s something deeply uncomfortable about profiting from people’s basic need for shelter, especially when that profit often comes with minimal accountability and maximum power over tenants’ lives. Rent increases “because the market allows it,” poor maintenance, opaque fees and agents acting as unchallengeable gatekeepers… it doesn’t always sit right with me as a way to earn a living.

AIBU to feel uneasy about this being a normal, socially accepted income stream?

I’m not sure why you’re being so up yourself about this. OP was the one who asked a question, so OP was the one I gave comment to. Yes there was conversation that followed the original question but that doesn’t mean anyone who then joins the thread has to ignore the original question and slot into the conversation when it’s moved on. People are allowed to answer the original question

That would require the government to give a shit about housing. Which they don't. And never will. Next solution?

I rent out my old house and I don't feel one bit guilty, I am severely disabled and don't have the privilege of other forms of work that the current narrative is all about portraying as more worthy.

The tenants, who've been there 10 years, get a lovely house at well below market rent, and I get to live with a bit more security and dignity than I would have on just state benefits.

That house you're frothing at the mouth with envy over might just be a disabled person's only income.

OP - have you considered water companies also? Humans need water to survive more than three days.

Shall we just leave it alone now? I'm rather enjoying the thread, but not this tedious derail.

I am a landlord. I keep the rent to what I believe is fair market rates. Sort out problems quickly, deal with all the maintenance and servicing, make sure the garden is kept neat, have recently spent £3k sorting out issues with the central heating system. Paid £500 to sort out a pest issue that may or may not have been the tenants fault. Write up the contracts when rooms change over to new tenants, do deposit paperwork, chase up cleaning company when cleaner doesn’t turn up, insure the house, pay the mortgage incl the interest…you think I should do all this for free? I’m confused, doesn’t everyone giving a service charge for it?

Not sure why you're leaving laughing emojis for PP. This is supposed to be an adult conversation.

Us mere mortals are forced to exist within the system that we currently have until we can organise ourselves to bring about change. Making choices that make sense within that system, doesn't mean you can't also think the system is deeply flawed and needs to change. Someone may sell to a landlord because they need to achieve a particular sale price in order to buy their onward property, and that's the person who's making an offer. That doesn't mean they can't also want a radical change whereby there wouldn't be any private landlords buying normal family homes. It's not some kind of "gotcha".

I think English prefer stability which owning a home may give to some. Continentals may prefer the flexibility that comes with renting

Wanting radical change is not a question of envy at all. I may well be in a similar boat to you at some stage. I have two disabled children and am a full time carer, so extremely limited (read: non existent) options for employment. At some stage I have to consider how my children will achieve financial stability, or how I will achieve it for them. The obvious answer is for my DH and I to acquire rental property to pass on which can provide a passive income for them.

What I would much rather, was that I could rely on the state to provide safe and comfortable housing and care for my children, to pay for all their support (not bare minimum crap quality care, but life-enriching real support), to know that they would be taken care of in every way necessary. In the absence of that, we ideally need lots of cash to pay for all of this privately. And again, most of that money will just be lining wealthy private pockets rather than helping my kids. It's greed, pure and simple.

There are plenty of us who hate the system and want radical change but do not vilify private individuals who benefit somewhat currently.

On the continent the rental properties are much more likely to be large housing blocks owned by investment companies. These companies have consistent pricing policies, they employ handymen to fix issues as and when they arise and the residents know they won’t be kicked out unless they prove to be a nuisance. They prefer long term tenants as they make life easier - no need to constantly be looking for references etc.

In this country we scream aghast at the idea of investment companies running housing so the companies take the hint and invest in build-to-rent in other countries instead, leaving us with an ever deepening housing crisis. A government too skint to build and investment companies being put off doing so too. Great work guys.

If there were a state-run, not-for-profit, social housing option whereby your tenant could rent a quality home for cost price (bearing in mind that the cost price would include not-for-profit, state-run repairs and maintenance, management etc), would they still want to pay what you charge them? I guess this is the crux. Safe, quality affordable housing could be achieved - and is achieved elsewhere in the world - at cost price to tenants. Unless there's something additional being offered by a private landlord (premium location, luxury standard accommodation) then any extra charge is just a layer of unnecessary profit extraction.

When I left home at 18, I had neither the means nor the desire to buy a home. I was a student.

Thank goodness for private landlords or I wouldn't have been able to leave home, take a degree or move to take my first job. Nothing bad about it. They provided a service I needed.

I don't see an issue.

You wouldn't have needed a private landlord if there had been a state-run and not-for-profit social housing option available to all that allowed you to pay less and receive an equal or higher quality of home than on the private market.

But there isn’t. And there won’t be for the foreseeable future.

From what I here protections make renting more stable on the continent than in the UK (and its more affordable).

Right. But we're discussing different ways of doing things, and alternatives to the current status quo.

There’s a difference between recognising the injustice of people being priced out of home ownership and what you’re implying. People aren’t ’frothing with envy’ rather rightly annoyed at paying off someone else’s mortgage on a house they have no security in.

And would this utopian option allow me the flexibility to choose the quality and location of the housing I desired? What about if I wanted as a single person to rent a 4 bed house, would that be allowed and what about location, could i simply choose what location I desire?

That's not what the OP is about though. It's worded as a criticism of landlords being in a business that the OP seems to think is immoral.

I mean, there’s definitely a moral argument to be made about owning multiple properties and treating houses as an investment when it could be someone’s home. The insecurity of renting for tenants. It’s got nothing to do with food production etc which is a weird way to take the argument just to defend LLs.

You’re the one who derailed it! Don’t be so bloody snooty.

Not sure why you're leaving laughing emojis for PP. This is supposed to be an adult conversation.

Because I found the comment funny. I’m not sure what you’re struggling with about that. I thought most people understood the concept of laughter.

It would be really useful if we keep a slight grip on reality though. There aren’t the funds currently for what you are talking about, and unless we find the whole of the UK is sat on some ultra valuable mineral we won’t have money for what you are talking about for some time.

There have been lots of anti landlord policies here in Scotland and many landlords have sold up. So many students cannot find somewhere to rent in their university town as a result. Some student have just had to put their degrees on hold as a result. Landlords (I’m not and never have been one btw) are vilified but provide a vital service whether you like it or not. I’d love to hear what realistic, short term alternatives people have for the private rental sector operating. There are none, and yet the UK government’s choose to tax and regulate the market into oblivion without considering the consequences of doing so. Interesting policy making to say the least.

Improved social housing would help people looking to rent long-term. It doesn’t help people who need to relocate quickly, or who need short-term lets, or youngsters that don’t want to stay with their parents until they’re ready to buy, or new couples who want to live together before deciding if they’re ready for marriage.

How would relocation work? If you’re moving to Birmingham from Swindon, for example, do you have to go to the bottom of the queue behind all the people who already live in Birmingham? Once you have that place in the queue, will all the people born and bred there who are in need of housing happily accept that they are now behind the Swindonite? What do you do while you’re waiting in the queue? Is the company that offered you the job in Birmingham going to wait indefinitely?

I got a new job many years ago and had to relocate within a month. How could I have done that if I had to apply for social housing and join a long queue? I certainly couldn’t have sold and bought a new flat within a month. I had to rent privately; otherwise I couldn’t have taken a significant career opportunity. I also had to rent out the flat I already owned in order to cover the mortgage on it. So was I the poor downtrodden tenant, trapped under the jackboot of capitalism? Or was I the evil landlord rinsing my tenants for profit? According to your logic, I was both.

Or maybe I was just someone trying to better themselves, who did what she needed to to make it work. I always saw that as a positive thing.