To not agree with how some people make their money, specifically landlords and letting agents?

[RealNavyEagle]

I’m not saying every landlord or agent is evil, before anyone jumps in. But I do think there’s something deeply uncomfortable about profiting from people’s basic need for shelter, especially when that profit often comes with minimal accountability and maximum power over tenants’ lives. Rent increases “because the market allows it,” poor maintenance, opaque fees and agents acting as unchallengeable gatekeepers… it doesn’t always sit right with me as a way to earn a living.

AIBU to feel uneasy about this being a normal, socially accepted income stream?

It's an interesting debate.

Money evolved to streamline bartering, but now the pursuit of it supercedes its primary function. We get the paradox of it being finite, and not growing on trees, yet a system has been created in our digital age where it apparently does, accruing "interest" due to the mystical markets, which strike me as precarious as gambling.

Personally, if this us the system we've got, I think that profit from necessities should be regulated and capped. Housing prices baffle me. How on earth, in a few decades, can an average family property, have risen in price from a few thoysand to a couple of million? Especially when wages haven't increased in line?

As to the morals or ethics, I think we're being psychologically manipulated into a skewed concept of "fairness" where greed overshadows necessity. Resentment abounds and it's driven by the consumerist / capitalist model. Judgement rests on how much you have, never mind how you come by it or how you conduct yourself.

I'm as far from religious as you can get, but it strikes me that the bit about love of money being the root of all evil is pretty accurate.

Fair play to those who have plenty if they "worked hard" etc, but we live in a world where opportunities to do the same are being phased out of existence because many can't just adapt to the speed of change because they're trapped in a cycle of survival over actual progress, and the divisions are ever widening.

Sure. But it turns out banks want deposits. Usually 10-20% of the house price. Average house price is £300k in the Uk, significantly more on the south. So deposit needed is £30-60k
Median salary is £40k. Take home salary £25k. How do you expect the average worker to save that in an instant?

Estate agents are reptiles. They forget that they are simply employees and service providers. Its the kind of job you go into when you have no qualifications or skills to do anything else.

The problem is.. if all landlords decided to sell up, where would all the tenants go? Even if house prices drop, a lot of people still wouldn't have enough money for a deposit. Im a tenant and am so worried about my landlord selling up as my rent is just about affordable.

That’s the real problem, I think. We’ve been able to help our kids with deposits after selling the family home and downsizing. Their mortgages are literally a third of what it would cost to rent the same properties.

Exactly. I only earn £28k per annum. Who the hell is going to give me a mortgage??

I used to work in lettings many moons ago in a former lifetime and I can say with some confidence that (anecdotally at least) that for every crap neglectful landlord who tries to keep entire deposits or levy additional chargers for spurious reasons there is an equally crap tenant who skips town owing rent and leaving the place in state that can only be described as outright vandalism. As a business we did not want to deal with either crap tenants or landlords and avoided most like the plague once identified. Most private landlords did give a shit about the fabric of the building and would not just casually allow leaks or serious defects to cause long term very expensive damage. Most also wanted a happy tenant as they stay longer (fewer voids and change over costs) and the last thing they (or we as a business) wanted was being called up several times a day due to an unaddressed broken boiler or washing machine. Most of the landlords I dealt with owned a single rental property that more often or not used to be their own home before they got married/had kids/moved for work etc and were planning on using their property as an income during retirement given the collapse of final salary pension schemes and the uncertainty on relying underperforming stocks and shares. A balanced supply of both private and social housing rentals underpinned with strong protections for both parties is required.

Agreed. Long term renter here who has no chance of getting a council house due to Thatchers
Thatcher's stupid Right to Buy Scheme.

Lots of people can’t get mortgages.
or are between houses
or don’t want a mortgage

Banks make a massive profit out of housing through interest payments

So do you want even less houses available for renting

I see what you mean but if people can’t afford a mortgage then they need to rent which comes with a landlord.

My husband is a landlord but he goes above and beyond to make sure he looks after his tenants, so they can be there long term.

2 days before Christmas the tenant rang my husband to inform the cooker had stopped working. My husband could have left it til after the bank hols since no where was delivering until after the 27th. Instead he paid extra to get the cooker that was available the next day. Went to another town to collect it and had it installed as soon as he got it to the tenants.

The tenants were so happy they baked him a cake. Good landlord do exist but perhaps hard to find, sadly.

Most people need to rent, for at least a portion of their lives. Either through not being able to buy, or due to moving lots. In my 20's I moved every 6 months to a year for work, I needed to rent. I had bought a property in early 20's, but no suitable jobs available for me in that area and couldn't sell due to leasehold issues, so had to rent it out - I was a good landlord - repaired and replaced things promptly even when damage caused by tenants, I think I had to put a new washing machine in on average every 2 years due to misuse. Didn't increase rent on any tenant, only when tenants changed over.

There is a difference between good landlords who treat their tenants with respect, acknowledging it's theirs for the term of the tenancy and repairing things promptly. And those who neglect their tenants to make as much money as possible out of them. There are also good and bad tenants, but this is rarely mentioned. I made a loss over the 8 years I rented my flat out, after paying my mortgage,letting agent fees, service charges and repair costs (including higher call out fees to get thing's sorted quickly) even when the increase in value from buying to selling was factored in.

The government has made it much harder for good landlords to operate at any profit if havea mortgage on the property, so many have sold up. Leaving rubbish ones who operate outside the law, and desperate tenants who have no choice but to use them.

If you want to live in a communist state, fill your boots! There are a few to choose from.

Please check back in to let us know how you get on.

Earn money and purchase property in the same way that they did and cut them out of the equation.

Who has access to a time machine though? Regulations & requirements are different, taxes are different. lending criteria is different, salaries are different.

I have one rental property, which I manage myself. It is in better condition than the place I live in, I respond very quickly to my tenants' needs, fix everything immediately whatever the cost or who caused the issue, and am currently looking on line for a nice new comfy sofa to buy them (which they have asked for despite the old one being fine). Yes, I charge market rent but that is because after my mortgage, tax, service charge, insurance, maintenance bills, licence to rent etc, I cannot afford to do anything else.

Do you think OP that I should be doing this all out of the goodness of my own heart? Why should I be subsidising someone else's housing or working hard so they can live comfortably but not get paid for my work? Yes, I make a small profit but believe me, I work for it. However, the government are now making it so hard for small landlords like me that I am thinking of selling, which will mean only large corporate landlords are left, who might not care about my tenants and only want large profits. Those of you who bash landlords never seem to be able to give an alternative that doesn't involve landlords working for free. I remember once on MN someone even saying they should gift their inherited flat to the tenants because the tenants had been paying rent for years!

The only alternative then is no one ever pays for a home

Yeah I do feel like that. Everyone needs a roof over their heads and hoarding property to capitalise on that need, while offering substandard or overpriced housing is morally wrong.

I've a family member who has about £12 million worth of property and he is still the tightest git known to mankind. And he looks down at benefits claimants and disabled people. He refuses to rent to HB recipients.

What would be the alternative? Landlords provide service and if you want to use that service you need to pay.

Sure we have a basic need for shelter but also food, fresh water, heat but we pay for all of those, usually to organisations much more powerful than a landlord. And yet landlords are singled out and vilified.

Some landlords are good, others are crap and that applies to both private landlords and also those providing social housing. A quick google search will bring up a story of someone living in a mould infested social housing property.

Home ownership comes with maintenance costs and there are lots of people who cannot afford to maintain their home. I realise that there are landlords that don’t adequately maintain their properties but they are mostly in the minority and if your landlord refuses, it’s possible to move (sure it’s not ideal but it’s a lot easier moving rentals than it is buying and selling a property.

Being a landlord allows local people to hold on to properties that can give other local people a place to live, rather than selling up to London (or Beijing or Moscow or you insert the place) based property conglomerates or having properties become second homes hardly lived in or Airbnbs. I have been very grateful for the landlords we had when we were saving to buy our own house.

Due to the government's new landlords' legislation I personally know of four landlords who, once the existing tenancies are up on their properties, will no longer be renewing the let. They are selling up. I imagine they will not be alone in doing so. It is just going to be too onerous to let their properties.

Things are going to get very difficult. You might regret that landlords have to give up their properties OP.

We rent out a brand new £280,000 3 bed mortgage free for a £1000 mortgage would be probably £1300 we would get more in the bank if we sell and without the hassle!

I found myself homeless after a vile divorce having sold a property to move into a house owned by my ExH’s parents.
a foolish decision on my part.
In my 50’s single and childless, with 2 dogs, no chance of social housing.
if it wasn’t for private landlords I wouldn’t have my current home.

I never understand this argument. Yes, bad landlords are not a good thing and should be addressed. But landlords per se are not a bad thing at all. Not everyone wants to buy a property, renting has it's place.

And do you feel the same way about businesses making a profit from other "basic needs", eg supermarkets selling food for profit, clothes shops, electricity companies etc?

A quick Google shows that 5% deposit mortgages are available, so your 60K becomes 15K. A lot of people choose to buy houses on two incomes these days, so 25K becomes 50K. So the deposit is less than 4 months of take home pay. This is lower than it was in the past..