MIL

[miamiamia869]

Is this being unreasonable.

Karen and mike have a daughter gemma who married a man named tom.

Toms parents are separated but gemmas are not.

Gemma and tom have spent every christmas at gemmas mums Karen's house for 9 years since they got togerher and in this time had a child. Tom finally got to spend the 10th year at his mums for christmas and then also wanted the 11th year at his dad's as thet are separated and in differant households.

Karen was angry and says its "her year" to have them at hers as thet were at his family last year so toms dad would need to wait until next year to have them. Even though they spent 9 consecutive years at hers. So technically if it works how she says it should be toms side for 9 years?

Is Karen being unreasonable?

Well clearly you think she is!

The answer is there's no right answer to this. Couples dont have to alternate years between different families. There are no rules. Some Couples always spend Christmas with one family because that's what works for them. Some alternate. Some do a myriad of other things.

Gemma and Tom need to work out what they want to do.

Calling the MIL ‘Karen’ is a nice touch!

The kids need to decide what they want and do it.

Karen needs to wait her turn! Why does she think she’s somehow superior to the other grandparents simply because she’s the maternal grandmother? Why does she think they should come to her again before the paternal grandfather has had his ‘turn?’

Gemma and Tom need to host and invite all GPs to theirs.

Firstly, Karen doesn’t get to decide. she gets to offer to host, but every person gets to decide where they spend Christmas themselves.

Next, if it were Gemma and Tom asking this question of Mumsnet, I’d say in a relationship of two people, who’s families both want them to have Christmas Day with them (and assuming it’s not possible to try and split the day), then it should be 50/50 alternative Christmas’s. The fact Tom’s parents are separated is a red herring. He is one person or 50% of the couple, and so he gets 50% of the Christmas’s. Tom’s parents need to understand that as part of their decision to separate they get to see their child less. In the early years this would have meant EOW etc, and now that Tom is in a relationship, it means further diluting Christmas’s OR coming together for Christmas (if possible). For example, they’d never expect Tom to have two weddings, so they both could go to separate ones. Obviously Christmas can be separate events, but it isn’t on Tom to fix a problem they created.

Finally, the 9 years with Karen/Gemma’s family is a red herring. Unless something was agreed at the time, this was obviously a choice made each year by Gemma and Tom, and there is no ‘back pay’ owed. If Tom’s parents had an issue with Tom’s decision at the time they should have raised it with him then. But it is still Tom’s decision. He could have gone separately to one or the other of his parents, if Gemma didn’t want to join him, but he chose not too. Again, if this was Gemma and Tom asking Mumsnet, I’d suggest Gemma consider acknowledging those 9 years and consider a one-off etc, but would also think this might muddy the waters, and a clear 50/50 split of family from now on would be best.

I assume you are Tom’s Mum?

Are you sure that Karen is angry? Maybe she is just upset which is a bit different.
Also I wonder what Tom did before Jemma re Christmas and his parents and why he went to Karen for 9 years?

Regardless of what's gone before, if they now plan to alternate Christmases going forward it should still be turn about regardless of the fact that tom's parents are separated. So it goes Gemma's family, Tom's dad, Gemma's family, Tom's mum, rinse and repeat.

How old is the grandchild? If they’re a baby or toddler then it doesn’t sound like Tom’s parents were bothered about Christmas until a baby arrived. Christmas Day at Gemma’s parents’ house and then Boxing Day and day after with Tom’s separated parents.

Seems like Karen has hosted for 9 years (which is a lot of effort and expense over the years!) and the couple have been happy to accept that hospitality. Why did this happen, why did they go to Toms parents?

It’s a bit strange after almost a decade to suddenly change plans and go to every 3 years visiting, I think personally I’d still alternate every other year and split toms parents over Christmas Day / Boxing Day. Or just host at my own home and have everyone round on Boxing Day.

Why would G&T not sort out a Christmas at his parents houses beforehand?

Karen doesn’t get to tell other people where they should spend Christmas.

It's got fuck all to do with Karen.

Based on the information in the OP, Gemma's mum Karen does seem to be unreasonable as she had a 9-year run of Christmases at her house.

They could alternate so that each parent hosted on Christmas Day every three years. On the years that they don't host on Christmas Day, they could host something on Boxing Day or the day after.

There really isn't enough information in the OP about the relationship dynamics and the personalities involved to really know what would be fair.

Gemma and Tom should host for a change. They invite all grandparents, who are free to accept or decline as suits them. Job done.

Karen hosted for 9 years, which is very generous of her.

Karen is being unreasonable, she doesn't get to tell people where they spend Xmas and demand their time. We used to alternate between our parents and a year at home ourselves. Then my inlaws got poorly and we spent multiple years solely with them because we thought it would be their last. No one complained.

I had this in my previous relationship. I think it’s the separated family
who have to take the hit, tbh. Regardless of what happened before.

Anyone is unreasonable who wants guests because it's 'fair'. You invite people, they accept or decline. You deal with whatever eventuality comes up.
The 'fairness' aspect is for Tom and Gemma to worry about. After 9 Christmases of being hosted, the fair thing to me would be for them to host and give the parents a year off.

karen is out of order & so is Tom. He should have put his foot down earlier to make it fairer sooner. What would be the best is if toms parents are amicable & can spend the day together for the sake of Tom (my H parents are able to do this) & Tom hosts both parents & the next goes to Karen’s. 3 years is a long stretch to wait & it’s not Karen’s fault she’s had 9 bonus years. Gemma is always going to want to spend it at Karen’s so Tom needed to be the one demanding equality.

I agree, it’s a price of a broken family I suppose. It’s not Karen’s or Gemma’s fault. Even if Gemma has had her own way for 9 years it’s unfair to make her then see her own family every 3 years whilst Tom get 2 years at his for the rest of time

Why didn’t Tom want to spend Christmas with either of his parents for 9 years straight?

But with just this info, if they have now decided to start alternating, what went before doesn’t count. Each family alternate, it’s not Gemma’s families fault Toms are separated so it shouldn’t be every 3 years for them.
Karens thoughts and feelings are irrelevant.

I dont think its about fair as such but what works.

What's the situation for the parents. My mum would be completely alone if I didnt host her but my inlaws have each other and multiple other children. So my mum gets more turns than is fair. Sometimes we have both sets of grandparents.

People say she should go to friends and has a few times but you'd be surprised how few families want an extra old lady who is thier mums mate, at their Christmas.

Why does Karen now think Christmas will be alternated every year between both families? It’s not been shared between the last 9 years. Can a couple not decide where to spend Christmas as each year arrives, why does there have to be a schedule? Why don’t Gemma and Tom host (or have the day alone) so their child can stay home and enjoy their presents?

Personally I feel it should be alternate years for each side of the family, it feels a lot fairer.

My brother and SIL are in a similar position, in fact due to very random circumstances SIL used to have 3 parents to go to. They always did every other year with each side of the family on xmas day. They see everyone between 24-27 so it all works out well anyway. Now they host SILs mum every year as she has no other family left to go to and host my parents every other year also with her. If my parents split up and they spent 1 year with dad, 1 year with mum and 1 year with MIL that would be extremely lonely for MIL and very unfair on her.

We did xmas day at home when the kids were little and all families, including in laws parents all came for dinner. We were the only ones with DC at that point. As more siblings had DC then we started doing things more separately but still ensuring our parents were treated fairly and weren't left alone. I sometimes think people are very insensitive around how much loneliness affects people, especially as our relatives get older.

It's hard enough for couples with young kids as it is to negotiate seeing everyone and actually meeting their own needs (usually the spinning plate that drops) , especially when some families are more complex than the traditional nuclear family. Add in late December or early January birthdays, disability, nonogenarian great grandparents and just watch tom and Gemma have a break down trying to please everyone whilst running themselves ragged.

Karen needs to grow up. We've found spacing visits, and the plethora of gifts works well to avoid overwhelm. It's special for each occasion as we all work hard to have traditions, festive meals for those days rather than just Xmas day etc.

Not that it's logistically easier, but there is breathing space between. And if we manage expectations from some time ahead, it works