To think there is grade inflation in universities

[Thetelly8]

I’ve noticed a lot of students gain very high grades it seems people getting a 2.2 or a third is extremely unusual.

And in the late 70s. Friend got a first in a traditionally male subject and made the newspapers. 1st were really rare. Most got 2i or 2ii. Very occasionally a 3rd.
Friends DD got a 1st, and lots of 1st class degrees when we went to DDs graduation a few years ago. (huge ceremony, lots of subjects).

Perfectly respectable if not shining in the 70s. Honestly.

2:2 was the norm in the 1970s and into the 1980s. What most students achieved.

Now 2:1 is the norm.

@RampantIvy Lots of places aren’t university blind now. Big well known companies might be but it’s not universal amongst SMEs. As employing someone is expensive, and most companies don’t like making mistakes, it’s been normal to check exact fit for a while now. Personally I think all info is useful and uni blind is a bit pointless if you write a tight job spec. Certainly dh wanted to know which overseas university. It mattered. It also mattered that the degree was on the approved list at the uk university too.

And eighties and nineties.

Exactly.

No way you could do so in the 1970's--at least not in the humanities.

A 2:2 in the 90s got you into the Big Four (back then it was the Big Six) whereas now it’s a 2:1.

My experience has been that the students, overall, are far poorer than they were.

You would think with the ease of finding materials and supports, their writing would be stellar and they would have read so much more than earlier generations of students.

When in fact many cannot write, and they don't read much either. Professors I know are finding they need to read things in class if they want to be sure the kids have read them. Most will not read the books assigned for the class, much less others mentioned tangentially. Which used to be normal, if something was mentioned the better students would go find it and read it as well as the required texts.

This was going on before AI summaries were available so I can only imagine it is much worse now. They won't sit through long lectures either. They say this is because it's "bad teaching" but the reality is they cam't pay attention and follow the thread of a talk that is an hour long, much less two or three. Not can they take their own notes.

I don't think the students are inherently less intelligent, but they certainly seem to have significantly devolved in terms of their intellectual development.

So much worse students, but higher marks. It will come back to bite people though. I have family members teaching in several areas, one who is a law professor, and one who teaches electricians, both say the same thing - they are passing people on the courses who will never be able to work in their respective fields.

Surely, that won't apply to all students though @TempestTost ?
Wouldn't this be more usual at the lower tariff universities?

@TempestTost We know we have over 25,000 students studying law each year and the vast majority won’t get jobs as solicitors or barristers. Some will work in companies but the majority won’t be good enough. Universities do not care about this though. It’s bums on seats and income streams that count.

Again, it’s too many students on degree courses It’s not just low tarrif universities in my opinion. The tariffs required at many RG universities for some courses are lower than you think. Motivation and ability as well as suitability for a course are secondary to filling it. Expansion of courses means lowering standards.

Reducing student numbers would release a hell of a lot of housing needed by others. My DD was at university in Geneva. 2 blocks of 4 flats on the little estate where she lived were university blocks and 2 were occupied by families. Identical buildings but multi occupancy.

Reducing student numbers would release a hell of a lot of housing needed by others.

They would still need to live somewhere if they weren’t students and student housing is typically much higher density.

The general attitude to reading weeks these days seems to be it is a half term holiday.

God, yes.

On the WIWIKAU Facebook page there are so many parents who think that university is like school. I saw a thread this morning from a parent who asked when half term was. They were put right straight away.

Could schools do more to prepare students' expectation for university? Could universities at open days do more to make students realise that university isn't school? I never went to university, but even I knew there was no such thing as half term.

I don't recognise most of the generalisations on this thread about DD's university. They were pretty strict about deadlines and attendance as it was a STEM degree. Seminars and lab practicals were not optional. When DD had covid and was pretty ill while writing her dissertation they wouldn't even give her an extension. To be fair, I think the expectationsof the students rom the university were higher as entry requirements were AAB/AAA. There was definitely no hand holding going on.

That’s quite a generalisation and totally depends on the course. One of my sons went to a RG uni and my other to a Poly turned uni. Both did the same degree. The workload on both courses was the same and pretty full on. There was definitely no way non attendance at lectures by either would be tolerated. They both graduated 2014/15.

I was very pleased for Dniece when she told me she’d achieved a First.
But then she added that all the SIX others in her houseshare had all got firsts!

Unheard of not so long ago.

Where my husband used to work they’d only employ graduates onto grad schemes from RG unis. He changed that and got a much better pool of more rounded candidates. He found that grads from Oxbridge were very entitled and thought they’d just walk in to a job. If they never got accepted they’d be on the phone or emailing demanding to know why.He recalls he was interviewing a potential graduate who said he was told to expect a first from Oxford. When pressed about how likely this was he admitted that a 2.1 was more likely but ifhe’s only down a couple of marks will probably be uplifted to a 1st. My husband asked why he said on his CV about the 1st his comment was “it looks better”. My husband replied “not from where I’m sitting. I got a 2:1. His face was a picture apparently!

This isn't true - they usually asked for 3 As - there weren't A stars back then. They occasionally gave a 2E offer if someone was amazing at interview - my friend got one but she got 4As anyway because she was super bright.

That is absolutely true. And some universities have tried to prevent students from just disappearing during reading weeks by reframing them as ‘enrichment’ weeks and putting on events for students in an effort to try to keep them engaged.

Rockchick01 · Today 10:44
Where my husband used to work they’d only employ graduates onto grad schemes from RG unis. He changed that and got a much better pool of more rounded candidates

That’s good to hear. I tried to persuade my dc not to go to university as neither were interested in academic work but the argument I couldn’t refute was so many jobs require a degree.
However this was a few years ago so I don’t know if it’s still the case.

I think it all depends on what they want to do. The academic route isn’t for everyone, though having a degree particularly in a STEM subject does give you greater choice.

Institutions are not equal and it’s definitely easier to achieve higher grades at some universities than others. In the 00s, I started my degree at a former polytechnic where the cut off for a first was 70%. I moved to the Open University for my final year and the cut off for a first with them was 85%.

Well nothing applies to all, does it. There are always some exceptional kids.

But no, I don't think it's just lower tier universities. Not by a long shot.

My son is final year at a Russell Group uni. He works bloody hard! I think attitudes have changed now they are paying for their degrees. Back when I went, it was free, we got a grant and was just an extension of sixth form really, everyone did the bare minimum.
When I compare that to my son who has been to the library several times over the holiday and spent at least 6 hours studying yesterday they definitely work harder than was my experience when I went.

Yes, I agree, it's too many students who aren't suitable. Now, of course some would always have realised at some point their course wasn't really for them. I have an uncle who started in law, found the stress levels were too much, and now runs a courier business that caters mostly to law firms. which is imo a perfectly fine outcome for all. Others finish and use the degree in a differernt way, and that's fine too.

What seems to be happening though is that students are being accepted and given accommodations that right off the bat mean they could never work that way in practice. Like not having hard deadlines for work, or not having to answer questions in class. Or in my other relatives case, could never pass the certifications to do electrical work. It's really a kind of fraud to the students depite the fact that they are demanding it.

What's more sad is that I think many kids, if their standards were higher before university, would be able to do the work. Their reading and writing are not up to standard because they are being fucked over by schools and allowed to coast.