To put him back in nappies?

[christmasmayhem12]

Ive been a lurker for a while but first post and I'll start this by saying myself and his dad are young parents. I'm 21, his dad is 20 and hes 4. For this reason I think we get slot of judgement that our sons behaviour is down to our ages and it's been a struggle to get taken seriously. Even by family.

He was due to start reception in September but we didn't get a place at the chosen school, he's now starting in Jan at said school and I'm worried, he's one of the youngest anyway but I really do suspect ASD, no diagnosis but he is behind. Nursery used to say he’d catch up but I don't think so. HV has always been judgmental of us.

He's now non verbal. He said a few words but he doesn't say them anymore, he's never been potty trained and maybe we did give up too easily but he does get really distressed with the nappy off. And it has to be a nappy, pull ups aren't right even though they're the same brand as the nappies.

My partners mum has been putting pressure on us to get rid of nappies, her other son is autistic but she keeps making comments about how he was potty trained by 3 and he was also 2 months premature, she's always been judgmental and things his issues are because of our ages and us giving in.

She said “just get rid of the nappies, he’ll have to use the toilet then”, except we did yesterday and only put one on at night and he got really upset and cried for about 2 hours. We managed to distract him but he's just had accident after accident. He’s even being pulling his pants down and weeing where he is because he hates being wet. He's only been successful on the potty once but that's because we managed to catch it.

Today he's been really unhappy, he hasn't eaten anything and barely had a drink. He barely eats as it is and is very still for his age and still has to have a bottle of formula as he won't drink other milk. Partners mum also finds this an issue and hence we don't see much of her.

We're going to have a quiet Christmas just us as he doesn't understand it anyway but WiBu to put a nappy on him tomorrow? I am worrying about school though. Finally he was referred a few months ago when we were finally listened to but that's years away. Previously we were told he would catch up and to watch and wait etc. I feel like I've failed him for not pushing more

Have you spoken to school about his needs? Are they aware he is non- verbal and still in nappies? This is quite a high level of need. Has he been to any childcare setting??
How long have you tried persevering for in the past? 2 days is not that long but he sounds like there is lot going on.

Here and now, today put the nappy on and let him be content.
toilet training doesn’t work by just stopping nappies, it requires a child to recognise he needs to use the toilet before he actually performs the action.
in January you need to make an appointment with your Gp and list all the difficulties your son is having, then you need to speak to your HV and ask for support for him.
You can’t just do this because your MIL says you should.

@christmasmayhem12 oh love, nothing is going to be solved overnight or in a single day. It sounds like you have a lot going on and need some support - I’m sorry your HV isn’t helpful. Can you ask your gp for help and to see someone else?

Tomorrow’s Christmas, I’d put a nappy back on, let everyone calm their nervous systems a little bit and have a break. Let your little boy relax and feel comfortable to eat and drink again, and if you can, reach out for help in the new year. I know you have the school deadline looming, but he’s still so little at 4 and it sounds like you all need some help.

Try not to judge yourself harshly, this stuff is hard and you’re doing your best. I hope you can find the help you need very soon.

Ok, so I’m only gonna address the potty training here as I have little experience with SEND and I’m not sure that’s your question.

1. if your kid hates being wet, and is pulling down his pants to piss on the floor, then they are MORE than ready! It’s basically job done already! Just bribe them with them a chocolate (or whatever their vice) to get it in a potty.
2. it is madness to start potty training 2 days before Christmas. Children are too excited, parents are too stressed. Pick a boring week when you have time. I potty trained my then 2yo in the boring bit between Xmas and NY.
3. it will take more than one day. My son pissed entirely on the floor for 2 days before suddenly “getting” it on day 3.

Youre not being fair on your child ignoring the potty training need. Being a young parent isnt an excuse. Its hard and it takes perseverance, and they will have accidents but its important you support your child and gently keep trying.

If you've only taken him out of nappies for 2 days then no YANBU to put him back in especially as it's Christmas and will be a bit of a disaster to try and potty train on that day.

It is worth blocking out some time at some point in the future though and persevering a bit longer. Perhaps when it's warmer so it's less strange for him to run around naked if he prefers. Try to reassure him and don't worry too much about accidents. One of my DC was very worried about being without a nappy and spent a couple of days sitting on towels which seemed to help. Although conversely we ended up accidentally coinciding this with moving house and the distraction of the adults turned out to be the best thing for him as it meant we weren't worrying and flapping around him making him more anxious about it.

Have you contacted ERIC (the children's bowel and bladder charity) for advice? They could definitely help with the toileting aspects. They have a website and a helpline that you can ring.

I’ve never heard of a child starting reception in January, I’m sure it does happen but it’s unusual.

I would be in contact with school straightaway and ask for support, although I’m certain you’ll be getting help immediately if he’s non-verbal and in nappies.

A few questions
Do you rely on a screen a lot? Do you talk to him and encourage conversations? Do you give in immediately to pointing and noises or do you wait for him to use words (you say he used words at one point).

Do you work? If not what are you doing at home together?

I think you need to wait until your child shows he is ready to potty train. If he isn't showing signs that he recognises that he is wet like trying to take his nappy off or even crying, then he probably doesn't even connect what he feels coming out with him ending up wet. Until he makes that connection, then he is very unlikely to understand potty training because he won't know that doing a wee somewhere, or conversely, not doing a wee somewhere, is something he can control. Have you talked to school about his needs? It's unlikely that a school will just be able to have a child who isn't potty trained and doesn't communicate well start without significant preparation which hopefully was done last term.

Hi OP.

I remember one of my children was still in nappies at age four.

I vividly recall him saying "I'll have to wear a nappy for the rest of my life!!" in great frustration.

He wore nappies in pre-school nursery.

My older child had been "trained" at age two, so it wasn't that I hadn't been through it before.

Some children (especially autistic boys, which my son proved to be) take rather a long time to succeed with potty training.

It sounds like your son might have some autistic traits. Have you seen your GP about this?

In the meantime, put the nappies back on him. Don't stress him out.

If he’s pulling his own pants down to pee because he doesn’t like being wet, he is more than able to potty train.
start on Boxing Day. Be there to catch him, give him positive reinforcement when he does it.
You can’t send him to school in nappies, take leave if you need to but shouldn’t take more than a couple of days.
It is harder being a younger parent and you do get more judgment, but don’t use it as an excuse.

Wow, it’s ableist bullshit bingo on here! Poor toilet training advice and the added fuckwit gem of “are you speaking to them” when you mention your child being non-verbal.

fucks sake!

Firstly, please stop trying to force him -
it’s causing him distress. It doesn’t matter that you’re young, you’re his mother not your MIL - you have to have his back.

Your council should have something called the inclusion support service - has your nursery got a SENCO? They can refer you. Speak to your gp asap about the asc concerns as the diagnostic pathway is a long one at the moment. You can also ask for a referral to SALT for speech therapy in the meantime. In terms of the continence aspect, your there are resources like ERIC but also take all the pressure out of the situation. Don’t bother with the potty - if he isn’t understanding it, it’ll only make things harder when you have to transition to the loo anyway. Start taking him to the loo and having him sit on the toilet while you do any favourite songs or stories, but don’t make any fuss or comment about it and if he doesn’t want to sit he doesn’t have to, just keep bringing up the idea.

My son has profound autism, learning disabilities and developmental delays and he has cracked it now but only once we stripped all the pressure out and just allowed him to do things in his own time.

Has anyone explained how to actually potty train? He obviously knows when he needs if hes pulling his clothes down

Bare bum at home first 2 days
Prompt to sit on potty or toilet every 30 minutes. Bribery is acceptable
Praise, praise, praise every try
Praise x 1000000000 when he gets it in the potty
Repeat
Day 3, joggers on, no pants. If all going well, extend prompt time to 45 minutes. Repeat above. By day 5 you should be winning

Sorry you've not been taken seriously. My DS is the same age and having similar difficulties, he was diagnosed with autism and global development delay last year and we have had support from specialist nurses with toilet training, he still isn't fully trained and I have been advised he may never get it but we keep going.
The advice I was given was to start with the toilet trips before properly training, there are so many little steps to going to the toilet that it can be overwhelming.
First step was always changing nappies in the bathroom and if possible putting the pooh in the toilet and flushing to show where it goes. After doing that for a while he started sitting on the toilet dressed just to get comfortable with it, after a while hand washing was added. A while later it was taking off the nappy to sit on the toilet whilst doing a fun activity, bubbles, singing, whatever he enjoys and will keep him there.
My DS did start doing wees on the toilet but we are currently in a struggle as he doesn't like underpants so we're trying training pants.
For some children it will take a lot longer and be more challenging. I tried the typical toilet training methods when my ds was just under 2, they worked fine for my eldest who were trained really quickly. A different approach with more patience and going at the child's pace instead of pushing is sometimes needed.
I'd put a nappy on tomorrow and enjoy the day, then start having a go at working on the little steps above before jumping in with underpants.

Agree with this.
He doesn’t like being wet means imo he is beyond ready - that’s the point of using the toilet!

Have you spoken to the GP or HV about him being non verbal? Has he been in any childcare setting?

What have you tried for potty training? I would wait until after Christmas, and I’d seriously reward him every single time he uses the potty or the toilet. Have his favourite chocolate to hand, packet of cars etc whatever he loves. Take the nappy off, let him have his tantrum, when he does a wee in the potty (even near the potty or toilet to begin with) give him a mega treat and loads of praise. Reward chart aswell big shiny stickers plus choc! Stay at home for three / four days. If you need to go even slower, any time he even pulls his pants down abd realizes ‘he needs to wee’ - reward him. Anything which pulls him away from nappies and into the mindset of ‘need a wee, pants down, to the loo or potty’
Dont give in to nappies once you start- if you do this it’s undoing your efforts and his. (Keep nappy for any naps and night time!) Best of luck xxxx

I'm an October baby and started school the January after I turned 4, so January 1979. I remember my mum saying there was a January intake after the main one in September. It's always been an option if your kid was born in the autumn.

Did you read the OP? If the child is pulling his pants down to wee then he has control and has made all the connections. The ‘wait for signs’ advice is basically rubbish, but if you are going to pay attention to it, then this is a child that is showing plenty of signs. sEN might just mean they need to learn how to use the toilet in a different way.

you’ve got to be more alert and spend more one on one time with your child because he can’t be wearing them forever

Don’t do this!!! I’m in a very similar predicament. My son is 4 1/2 should have started school in September, summer born- we deferred a year because he has a diagnosis of autism, global delay and language delay (he was non verbal a few months ago) he is also not potty trained. Your son might be similar to mine, I suspect he has sensory difficulties. His brain doesn’t let him know when he needs a wee, he doesn’t know when he’s wet and will be in soiled nappy all day ( it also impacts hunger, he had never once communicated hunger and temperature- he doesn’t seem to feel the cold or heat.

we have decided when we are home he is in pants, at first we rewarded him for sitting on the toilet, now for using the toilet. He seems to realise more when he’s wet and lets us know which was a huge jump forward. But he doesn’t recognise when he needs to go, so a lot of accidents!

please if you suspect SEND, go to your GP, make an appointment with the SENCO at school and start the ball rolling, we started this journey when he was two and it’s taken 2 1/2 years to get diagnosis and an EHCP. It’s been a long hard battle, but completely needed- my son would have been starting school this year, no one to one support, no funding, no educational plan had we not fought hard early (and sadly it’s a battle).

He has been to nursery and there has been a referral but they were very much watch and wait. The school know and they have a sen unit which is the main reason we wanted him to go there but we were put on the wait list.

I know how to potty train. I've tried 3 times previously but he doesn't get it. He hates wearing pants even when dry and tries to take them off and he hates having the nappy off. He doesn't understand Christmas so it's not the time of year.

Every time we change him and put more pants on him he has full on meltdowns, screaming and crying and lying on the floor, it's hard to get him out of it. I'm also concerned as he's not eaten anything and he's already small for his age and doesn't eat much

I agree. Unless this child has diagnosed or professionally suspected SEN then a bottle and nappies at four is treating a child like a baby. He may have gone past being ready to do then.

I mean….. sounds fine for a neurotypical child. This mother thinks her child might be autistic.

Possibly yes, but its unclear if they've even really tried any sort of potty training/learning so its a start point at least

I highly doubt that by 4.5 they wouldn’t have tried the basics available to us all.

This is excellent advice 👏