Page 7 | To be furious at local church carol service

YogaGrinch · 2025-12-24T18:55:53+00:00

With our new "fundamentalist " vicar who included genesis 3 16 And other misogynistic patriarchal quotes and suggestions throughout the service - Listening to the King's college Cambridge service tonight was a completely different service although there too there were some dated patriarchal views shared? And basically using opportunity of a full church to preach hellfire and brimstone snd call us all hypocrites and sinners rather than preaching love kindness beauty Never heard anything like it Was absolutely 💔

bridgetreilly · 25/12/2025 00:00

YearOfTheDrizzle · 24/12/2025 23:51

Yes, how “evil” of her to eat an apple! Fruit is generally considered to be a healthy snack. What should she have had instead, a packet of pringles? Seems odd to punish someone for making good dietary choices. Or put an apple tree around at all if apples are for some reason “forbidden”? Why make humans that need food at all if this “God” has such a problem with people eating it?

Not a very nice “God” to be wishing pain on her for this abominable culinary “crime”, not to mention on billions of women as yet unborn who had nothing to do with the fruit snack situation. It seems rather abusive, controlling and psychopathic, in fact. As is impregnating another woman without her knowledge or consent. Not seeing much worthy of worship really. Perhaps this “God” and “Satan” are one and the same?

Meanwhile this “God”, according to the bible, has at various times murdered people en masse including innocent children, used chemical warfare, deliberately caused famines, instructed people to murder their own children, demanded animal cruelty, legitimised rape and degradation of women as sub-humans that are allegedly male property.

Very odd to idolise such behaviour but feel so strongly about a woman eating an apple.

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“Tell me you’ve never read the Bible without telling me you’ve never read the Bible.”

But sure, it’s about a God opposed to healthy eating. She should probably have stuck to pigs in blankets.

MollyMollyMandy33 · 25/12/2025 00:01

GoodVibesHere · 24/12/2025 19:58

I mean you can't pick and choose which bits of the religion you believe in can you, surely you're either in or you're out? The bible isn't a Taylor Swift record where you might prefer listening to the lyrics of some songs to others, it's the written word of the religion you follow isn't it.

I mean the whole lot is all guff to me, it was written by a bunch of men in order to control the masses, so what do you expect.

Really?
The bible was written by about 40 extremely diverse authors over the course of about 1500 years. About 50 generations.
If the intention was to ‘control the masses’ there must have been easier and quicker ways to do that.

Staringintothevoid616 · 25/12/2025 00:02

NormasArse · 24/12/2025 23:42

Christians follow the word of Christ- so New Testament, with a nod to the old.

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Christ made it clear the old laws still stood. His very claim to be the son of God is predicated on the validity of the OT. The NT builds on the OT

ErrolTheDragon · 25/12/2025 00:02

Longdarkcloud · 24/12/2025 23:28

@UsernameMcUsername
You are correct in that the decisions re the scriptural canons were commenced in the 4thC but they was definitively reaffirmed at the Council of Florence in 1442 and finally in 1546 at the Council of Trent after opposition by the early Protestant leaders.
However I still maintain that the fact that the Bible as accepted by most Christian churches I random collection of parts chosen centuries ago by not always very ethical/pious men.

And that’s just the western tradition - the various Eastern Orthodox and oriental traditions have different canons. There’s a couple of handy tables in here for the various flavours of OT and NT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon#Christian_canons

LongBreath · 25/12/2025 00:03

Uricon2 · 24/12/2025 23:42

This is isn't right,. The last redaction of the Hebrew Bible (OT) was long before Christ and the NT in the early centuries CE. Saying this to respect accuracy.

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Of course it’s right. The Bible is an anthology of chunks of history, law, proverbs, poetry etc compiled over centuries. What’s in and what’s out of the anthology depends on who’s doing the compiling and when. Judaism, Jewish Christianity, and various different strands of Christianity, Ethiopian, Syriac and Eastern churches, take different positions on the Apocryphal etc.

mitochondrialdna · 25/12/2025 00:03

YogaGrinch · 24/12/2025 19:58

Thankyou for your insights here . I have attended many nine lesson services and never heard 3 16 read before. Felt very uncomfortable for many of us there. Indeed shocking for some.

A modern church surely needs to adapt and adjust some of these verses. To reflect 21st century.

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If you don't like Genesis 3:16 perhaps you could consider

"See, the day of the Lord is coming . . . . Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated" (Isaiah 13)

I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.” (Leviticus 26)

"’ it is for the greatness of your iniquity that your skirts are lifted up, and you are violated . . . because you have forgotten me and trusted in lies. I myself will lift up your skirts over your face, and your shame will be seen.” (Jeremiah 13)

Happy shall they be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock!” (Psalm 137)

"So now kill every boy and kill every woman who has had sexual intercourse, but keep alive for yourselves all the girls and all the women who are virgins." (Numbers 31).

People only tolerate the bible and think it's moral because they haven't actually read it.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/12/2025 00:14

mitochondrialdna · 25/12/2025 00:03

If you don't like Genesis 3:16 perhaps you could consider

"See, the day of the Lord is coming . . . . Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated" (Isaiah 13)

I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.” (Leviticus 26)

"’ it is for the greatness of your iniquity that your skirts are lifted up, and you are violated . . . because you have forgotten me and trusted in lies. I myself will lift up your skirts over your face, and your shame will be seen.” (Jeremiah 13)

Happy shall they be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock!” (Psalm 137)

"So now kill every boy and kill every woman who has had sexual intercourse, but keep alive for yourselves all the girls and all the women who are virgins." (Numbers 31).

People only tolerate the bible and think it's moral because they haven't actually read it.

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And in the New Testament, squarely in the Christmas story we have Herod and the massacre of the innocents. And we supposedly have god warning Mary and Joseph to flee, and warning the wise men not to go back to Herod but he doesn’t warn the other parents in Bethlehem. Wtf?

Sortingstuffout · 25/12/2025 00:20

What was actually said that you found offensive?

Uricon2 · 25/12/2025 00:20

I'm not going to argue about most (pretty much all) organised religion being patriarchical and yes, misogynist. I will ask if anyone can find any incidence of Christ being so. Among His many radical teachings, He treats women as equals, to the point of appearing to one first at the Resurrection.

A study of first CE culture in all societies will show how very unusual this is.

BauhausOfEliott · 25/12/2025 00:23

scatterolight · 24/12/2025 19:15

I know this might blow your mind but some people go to Church for tradition. Tradition that is in short supply everywhere else. You could always just stay at home and watch the BBC.

The OP’s service doesn’t sound like a traditional Christmas Eve service at all, though. It sounds much more evangelical than a traditional Anglican service - more like something you’d hear at an Independent Baptist church in the southern USA.

Hiptothisjive · 25/12/2025 00:24

Furious and heartbroken. Goodness with the hyperbole. Hard to take a post seriously.

Uricon2 · 25/12/2025 00:26

LongBreath · 25/12/2025 00:03

Of course it’s right. The Bible is an anthology of chunks of history, law, proverbs, poetry etc compiled over centuries. What’s in and what’s out of the anthology depends on who’s doing the compiling and when. Judaism, Jewish Christianity, and various different strands of Christianity, Ethiopian, Syriac and Eastern churches, take different positions on the Apocryphal etc.

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I think if you read what I said following this post

'Various theological councils in the Middle Ages decide which books should be included'

you'd find that I pointed out that the Bible was not written in the Middle Ages. They are from long before that.

Because it wasn't, but yes, I do know what the TaNahKa and the NT are made up of.

Longdarkcloud · 25/12/2025 00:28

@UsernameMcUsername You may be right re the future. Just out of interest how many people in culturally Christian countries do you think believe that the dead remain so until the Day of Resurrection?

GroundControlToMajorTomCat · 25/12/2025 00:29

I won’t lie to you if you read the Bible you’ll be hard pressed to find much non-patriarchal material. I mean even some of Jesus’ stuff is pretty grim (“Do not think I have come to bring peace…but a sword” (Matthew 10 etc…). Anyway have a good Christmas.

LongBreath · 25/12/2025 00:32

GroundControlToMajorTomCat · 25/12/2025 00:29

I won’t lie to you if you read the Bible you’ll be hard pressed to find much non-patriarchal material. I mean even some of Jesus’ stuff is pretty grim (“Do not think I have come to bring peace…but a sword” (Matthew 10 etc…). Anyway have a good Christmas.

And Paul. Ghastly man.

FailMeOnce · 25/12/2025 00:34

I an extremely perplexed by your outrage.

Is this your religion? If so, this is your holy text and what you are subscribing to. It's not a pick n mix.

If not, it's fine to go to a carol service if you fancy but you really can't be surprised that most of the participants are there to engage in said religion and read out any and all passages from their holy text (with which you seem to be very familiar so, again, no element of surprise).

I'm not religious but if I choose to attend church, or any other place of religious worship, I certainly don't think I have the right to demand they edit their foundational texts to suit my sensibilities!

TheSunRisesInTheEast · 25/12/2025 00:37

I'm just home from a Carols by Candlelight service. The congregation were really friendly and welcoming. I always like to go to church on Christmas eve, on my own, it's something I did with my nanny years ago, and it's a lovely way to start Christmas day. Peace be with you 🙏

MerryAndBrightLaLaLa · 25/12/2025 00:39

YogaGrinch · 24/12/2025 19:19

Tradition by quoting verses of Bible that are misogynistic and evil and blame women? You like that"tradition"?

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Can Christians just pick and chose the bits they like then?

soundsys · 25/12/2025 00:40

Oh wow that sounds festive! Ours was focused on leaving room for wonder and trying to resist doomscrolling, apart from the churches Instagram 🤣

Gettingbysomehow · 25/12/2025 00:45

I turned from christianity to the old religion years ago. Its a whole new world away from the never ending control and threats of the church. You can be a decent person because you want to be not because of threats of damnation.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/12/2025 00:47

MerryAndBrightLaLaLa · 25/12/2025 00:39

Can Christians just pick and chose the bits they like then?

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In practice, most do.

LemaxObsessive · 25/12/2025 00:54

Redflagsabounded · 24/12/2025 19:31

Baffled by this as an atheist, to be honest. If you are a Christian, surely you believe the Bible is the Word of God? If you believe that, how can you pick and choose which bits you like? If you don't believe that, how are you a Christian?

Same. As for those saying it needs a rewrite?! It wouldn’t be the bible then would it?!

LemaxObsessive · 25/12/2025 00:54

Gettingbysomehow · 25/12/2025 00:45

I turned from christianity to the old religion years ago. Its a whole new world away from the never ending control and threats of the church. You can be a decent person because you want to be not because of threats of damnation.

What is the ‘old religion?’

LemaxObsessive · 25/12/2025 00:58

Sortingstuffout · 25/12/2025 00:20

What was actually said that you found offensive?

Look up Genesis 3 16

Meadowfinch · 25/12/2025 01:01

NewNameAgain000 · 24/12/2025 19:20

Which bit of this is traditional for Christmas?

16 To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”

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If he tried that in our local church, he'd cut the congregation by 70% in a couple of weeks. What a tit. You could complain to the diocese. With luck you'll have a female bishop who will tell him to keep his ignorant views to himself.