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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be furious at local church carol service

598 replies

YogaGrinch · 24/12/2025 18:55

With our new "fundamentalist " vicar who included genesis 3 16

And other misogynistic patriarchal quotes and suggestions throughout the service -

Listening to the King's college Cambridge service tonight was a completely different service although there too there were some dated patriarchal views shared?

And basically using opportunity of a full church to preach hellfire and brimstone snd call us all hypocrites and sinners rather than preaching love kindness beauty

Never heard anything like it

Was absolutely 💔

OP posts:
ByLovingTraybake · 29/12/2025 20:27

OneMerryUser · 29/12/2025 20:13

Hi. I am ethnically Indian and was brought up as a Hindu but have felt lost the past few years and I became an atheist because I didn’t know why so much bad stuff happened. I went to some carol services over the past month and was also appalled by what @YogaGrinch saw about what I thought was misogyny but have been really helped by some of the posts here on this thread as I completely didn’t understand a lot. I saw the way in which people talked about the Bible and Jesus and some of it started to resonate and I got one of the book recommendations by John Chapman called a fresh start and I thank you because I really think that this makes sense. I watched the alpha videos and I am signing up in January and I went to a local church that offers Christianity explored yesterday and I want to say to any of the people who shared that they are Christian’s and did so in a kind and caring and patient way with all the questions that someone was listening because I took it seriously and I already think it has made a difference to me. I’ve watched and felt sad at some of the comments that have been made and I think if this was my workplace then you’d be in trouble under the equality act in how you’ve spoken to people about their religion. I think it is possible to ask questions in a kind and polite way even if you don’t agree and I hope if there some thing that people take away from this it is that we all share different views and if we don’t agree then we should try to muster up some kindness and care in how we speak to each other. I think it says a lot that a lot of people spent their time picking on others where they didn’t even want to understand where the other person was coming from but just be as nasty as they could and I was too scared to say that I was starting to be convinced by some of the posts about Jesus because I was scared you’d be horrid to me too. But maybe i also need to say something so that some of the people know that they’re making a difference to someone they’ve never met. I know I’ll be called stupid and told I’m an idiot, but something in these posts struck me and I think it was god working through some of these humans

Thanks so much for sharing — it’s really encouraging to read. What you’ve described is exactly why the gospel matters: God loves every single one of us, no matter where we’re coming from or what we’ve done. It’s not about being perfect, it’s about His grace. I’ve always loved how the gospel draws together such a motley crew of people, from all nations and all languages.

I’ll not be able to post as much as I’m travelling with my little children (3s and under!), but please drop me a DM if you’d like any further book recommendations - I really enjoy sermons and books by Tim Keller (‘The Reason for God’ is a great one!)

It’s lovely to see how even small acts of kindness and patience here in the way people express themselves can be encouraging — especially when we feel surrounded by darkness. I really do hope you have an edifying and encouraging journey as you explore your questions and faith. Thank you so much for posting!

DreamingspiresStar · 29/12/2025 20:44

YearOfTheDrizzle · 29/12/2025 20:14

Because it DIDN’T answer any of the questions that I or other posters asked. It deliberately avoided the more challenging ones, over and over again, just like the responses from a couple of other vociferous posters who want to quote the bible at everyone but not actually engage with the challenging questions.

As for the hypocrisy of your personal attacks on people accusing them of being “cruel” (?!) simply for asking questions on the topic of the thread, and accusing people of “verbally attacking” others when that’s precisely what you’re doing, it’s just yet more of the same tiresome gaslighting. Wading in to add more of it doesn’t make it any more plausible or reasonable.

Apparently you don’t think the responses have been “preachy”? Read the one just above mine at 19:03! I haven’t seen a satisfactory answer resolving any of the many inherent contradictions that multiple posters have pointed out during the thread. We’re clearly back to the whole “evil people dare to criticise religion! How dare they!” nonsense. Freedom of religion doesn’t extend to being free from scrutiny or questioning or others being allowed an opinion. If you don’t wish to discuss it you can practice it in private but if people post on public discussion boards about it then they can expect it to be discussed and challenged like any other assertion or topic.

Since you seem to prefer the preachy style of posting that we’ve all had to endure at length, which has largely involved posters quoting random bible verses out of context to mean whatever they want them to mean at the time and ignoring the ones that don’t fit their narrative:

”Through seeing they do not see, through hearing, they do not hear or understand” Matthew 13:13.

Edited

I’m a theology student at Oxford — not a Christian. I’d actually say that some of the clearest answers in this thread have come from those who openly identify as Bible-believing Christians. More than that, they’ve responded with a level of grace and patience that most people would have lost long ago (we could all learn something from that, @ByLovingTraybake ).

There’s been a lot of muddled questioning and poor theology being thrown around by people who don’t hold the faith and don’t seem genuinely curious, but instead appear intent on goading. If you’re settled in your atheism and not actually interested in understanding, why persist in bullying others?

Many verses have been taken out of context by critics here, whereas I’ve consistently seen Christians offering careful, thoughtful responses. One poster in particular has articulated their beliefs very clearly. While I don’t agree with everything they’ve said, I can see the internal coherence of their position, the biblical basis for it, and the consistency with which they’ve expressed it — all with grace. From where I’m standing, they’ve answered every question put to them.

For what it’s worth, I’m Jewish by background. Bring on the antisemitism — except, of course, that you wouldn’t. Apparently the line is drawn there, while Christians remain fair game for unfair and unkindridicule.

ByLovingTraybake · 29/12/2025 21:06

DreamingspiresStar · 29/12/2025 20:44

I’m a theology student at Oxford — not a Christian. I’d actually say that some of the clearest answers in this thread have come from those who openly identify as Bible-believing Christians. More than that, they’ve responded with a level of grace and patience that most people would have lost long ago (we could all learn something from that, @ByLovingTraybake ).

There’s been a lot of muddled questioning and poor theology being thrown around by people who don’t hold the faith and don’t seem genuinely curious, but instead appear intent on goading. If you’re settled in your atheism and not actually interested in understanding, why persist in bullying others?

Many verses have been taken out of context by critics here, whereas I’ve consistently seen Christians offering careful, thoughtful responses. One poster in particular has articulated their beliefs very clearly. While I don’t agree with everything they’ve said, I can see the internal coherence of their position, the biblical basis for it, and the consistency with which they’ve expressed it — all with grace. From where I’m standing, they’ve answered every question put to them.

For what it’s worth, I’m Jewish by background. Bring on the antisemitism — except, of course, that you wouldn’t. Apparently the line is drawn there, while Christians remain fair game for unfair and unkindridicule.

Thank you so much for your post — I really appreciated it. I’ve been travelling, breastfeeding a baby, and juggling little children while also trying to respond to a steady stream of thoughtful theological questions from multiple posters. That’s meant I haven’t always been able to engage as fully or deeply as I would have liked with everyone.

I’ve tried to be clear that what I was doing was simply explaining the fact that I draw my hope and confidence from Jesus’ rescue, rather than offering a fully worked-out theological answer to every possible question. Not having a detailed response on everything did, at times, seem to provoke a great deal of frustration, which is a shame — I wish these conversations could take place in person.

I’m simply a sinful person trying, as honestly and graciously as I can, to explain what I believe and why. I have a great deal of respect for those who’ve taken the time to ask thoughtful questions, to probe the Bible carefully, and to engage with genuine curiosity.

Feel free to drop me a DM on places that you disagree and we can carry on the chat when I have a moment! I’d love to hear your thoughts.

Jonnyenglish · 30/12/2025 00:51

overall why do people believe or need religion ?

RedTagAlan · 30/12/2025 01:09

Jonnyenglish · 30/12/2025 00:51

overall why do people believe or need religion ?

I think its an evolution thing. We are a social species of animal after all, and there is a survival advantage if we work together as a pack.

No divine hand or anything, just evolutionary advantage, with a massive dollop of indoctrination on top. Warm fuzzy feeling from singing hymns, that's the old endorphins or whatever at work, a defo survival advantage compared to an outcast in the wilderness.

And of course, as the indoctrination is being reduced in modern society, people are finding we can still work together and survive without it.

RedTagAlan · 30/12/2025 02:09

DreamingspiresStar · 29/12/2025 20:44

I’m a theology student at Oxford — not a Christian. I’d actually say that some of the clearest answers in this thread have come from those who openly identify as Bible-believing Christians. More than that, they’ve responded with a level of grace and patience that most people would have lost long ago (we could all learn something from that, @ByLovingTraybake ).

There’s been a lot of muddled questioning and poor theology being thrown around by people who don’t hold the faith and don’t seem genuinely curious, but instead appear intent on goading. If you’re settled in your atheism and not actually interested in understanding, why persist in bullying others?

Many verses have been taken out of context by critics here, whereas I’ve consistently seen Christians offering careful, thoughtful responses. One poster in particular has articulated their beliefs very clearly. While I don’t agree with everything they’ve said, I can see the internal coherence of their position, the biblical basis for it, and the consistency with which they’ve expressed it — all with grace. From where I’m standing, they’ve answered every question put to them.

For what it’s worth, I’m Jewish by background. Bring on the antisemitism — except, of course, that you wouldn’t. Apparently the line is drawn there, while Christians remain fair game for unfair and unkindridicule.

Quote : " I’d actually say that some of the clearest answers in this thread have come from those who openly identify as Bible-believing Christians"

Of course atheists on this thread have not been presenting their world model. Evolution, biology, physics, science in general. Atheists have mainly just been asking questions. And we are getting a lot of contradictory answers.

And none of the Christians appear to be tackling the denomination questions. If we had some Westboro Baptist, or JW, YEC, Mormon, Amish etc, posters here, lets see how much agreement there is between them.

Quote : "There’s been a lot of muddled questioning and poor theology being thrown around by people who don’t hold the faith and don’t seem genuinely curious, but instead appear intent on goading."

I am not seeing any goading. What I see are atheists who are likely at some point have been exposed to Christianity, and who are now quizzing those who still believe. And of course we won't get consistent answers. We know that. That's why so many atheists are atheists. Because we did think about it. We just refuse to do the mental gymnastics required to "keep the faith". We prefer to not lie to ourselves. After all, everyone is born atheist, and some of us adults have returned to being atheist after a literal lifetime of indoctrination. We are beyond curious phase, we are in the " we know it is rubbish" phase.

Also, what is poor theology ? Speaking for myself, I have been quoting the Bible directly to make my points. It's the Christians who say " Ahh, that does not actually mean what it says", or " ohh, we ignore that bit".

Quote :"Many verses have been taken out of context by critics here, whereas I’ve consistently seen Christians offering careful, thoughtful responses. One poster in particular has articulated their beliefs very clearly. While I don’t agree with everything they’ve said, I can see the internal coherence of their position, the biblical basis for it, and the consistency with which they’ve expressed it — all with grace. From where I’m standing, they’ve answered every question put to them."

Nah. I know the Bible pretty well, and I have not seen any answers with "grace" and coherence. You said yourself in the above quote : " While I don’t agree with everything they’ve said,...".

Lets do a switch. Talk about evolution, from Abiogenesis to man on the moon. Throw in formation of the solar system too. See how much disagreement there is. There won't be much, if any.

Quote " Bring on the antisemitism — except, of course, that you wouldn’t. Apparently the line is drawn there, while Christians remain fair game for unfair and unkindridicule."

Yeah. It's Christianity that is being discussed because that is in the thread title. Personally as an ex Christian, I can honestly say I don't know much about Judaism, Not the different sects and customs anyway. But I have made posts above about glaring problems with the Pentateuch. I have stated for example, there is no evidence for Moses, how Adam and Eve, original sin, makes no sense at all, the brutality of Mosaic law.

I suppose if the thread title had been " I can't believe what my Rabbi said at Synagogue", this thread would have been very different. Same is it had been " I can't believe what my Iman said at Mosque". Plug in any religion really.

RedTagAlan · 30/12/2025 02:41

MySharpLilacSheep · 29/12/2025 18:19

I am not a Christian but have been disgusted by the way in which some people have spoken to some of the people on this thread. No wonder Christians are the most persecuted religion in the world. Please take a look at your tone - @ByLovingTraybake shows how it is possible to disagree and set out a view that is different or personal to him / her without resorting to bullying words and a callous tone. It would be nice if we can respect people as we question each other, kindly. Don’t you think?

Quote " Quote : " No wonder Christians are the most persecuted religion in the world."

I think there are many folk who would dispute that claim.

And of course it is a built in feature of Christianity, Jesus himself said -

Mat 5:11" Blessed are you whenever they may reproach you, and may persecute, and may say any evil thing against you falsely for My sake--" (LSV)

This is something that has been used to great effect by the US evangelicals/right. The whole Fox news " war on Christmas" thing.

Being persecuted for being a Christian is one of the requirements to be blessed. Indeed, if one works through The Beatitudes ( Mat 5:2-12), and treat it as a tick box ( as many do), blessed are the meek, the hungering, the thirsty, not many ticks there for many.

ByLovingTraybake · 30/12/2025 06:34

Darkdiamond · 29/12/2025 20:22

One of my good friends is from Sri Lanka and was raised in Buddhism and she had her own experience that got her interested in Christianity a few months ago. I hadn't pushed my faith onto her at all but was there to answer questions when she came to me. She called her mum in Sri Lanka to tell her, and to her surprise, her mum had started reading the Bible and going to church but hadn't told her! It had been so lovely to see my friend grow in her faith but really to learn about Jesus from scratch in a way that a lot of Westerners don't think about, because Jesus is so in the culture even if someone isnt religious. Its so nice to hear of your interest and if you have any questions please feel free to PM me :-)

Oh, that is really lovely to hear. It is fantastic that they’re exploring everything from scratch and they must have some incredibly interesting questions. I wonder whether the questions are vastly different when coming from a different cultural perspective? What had prompted the enquiring for her and her mum?

Darkdiamond · 30/12/2025 10:31

ByLovingTraybake · 30/12/2025 06:34

Oh, that is really lovely to hear. It is fantastic that they’re exploring everything from scratch and they must have some incredibly interesting questions. I wonder whether the questions are vastly different when coming from a different cultural perspective? What had prompted the enquiring for her and her mum?

So she was doing a course on ancient civilizations and had taken several books from the library. One of them was something like 'The Ancient Lands of the Bible' and she showed it to me because I am a Christian and she thought I would find it interesting (that she was reading it). The next day she told me she couldn't stop reading the book about the ancient lands of the Bible and that she wanted to read the Bible itself and could I give her a recommendation for a good translation.

As it happened, that night, I mentioned this to another close friend who randomly told me that she had a Bible on her bookshelf that she thought was from Sri Lanka. She had no idea where it came from but it had been on her shelf for ten, maybe fifteen years. She sent me a picture of it and it was indeed in my friend's language. So the next day I handed the Sinhalese Bible to my friend. To say she was shocked was an understatement!

She started to read it and at the same time became very interested in Jesus. She watched the Passion of the Christ and began drawing Jesus and says she felt a supernatural force with her as it happened. She began watching Christian content and reading up on the Bible. She told her mum on the phone and her mum told her she had also been reading the Bible, and she recommended my friend the NKJV in English as the Sri Lankan one I gave her was in an old version of the language and she wanted something easier to understand.

Unfortunately, soon after, my friend went through a very hard time. Its hard to describe without outing her, but there seemed to be no real solution and she seemed trapped in the problem for the forseeable future. She was absolutely distraught and was becoming unwell as she situation was so awful. She and I prayed a lot about her situation.

One night as I was falling asleep, I felt prompted to pray about her situation. In my mind's eye I had an image, like a very short waking dream and there was a kind of message/meaning that I inferred, that her hardship would end soon (which actually seemed very unlikely due to the nature of the problem). The next day I told her about the dream thing. The day after that, she came over to me and with tears in her eyes, said 'Take my hand. I believe in Him'.

I was really confused, so she told me that she had just got news that the difficult situation was over. She said as she was being told the good news, the room went black and all she could think about was the message in my 'dream' which had come to pass.

In all of our friendship, I had only just said things like 'Oh someone in my church has the same top as you' or 'I have a Bible study on Tuesday evening, what about Thursday instead?'. I never shared the Gospel or mentioned my faith in any way other than incidentally. I don't, generally, unless someone asks or the topic comes up very organically.

She has since told me that her mum just got baptised in Sri Lanka and they have been growing in their faith together. She is reading the Bible through very fresh eyes, different to me as I'd been through the Catholic system so it was all very familiar. My friend has such interesting perceptions and hits the nail on the head in ways I didn't think about before. Its been so amazing!

RedTagAlan · 30/12/2025 10:42

Darkdiamond · 30/12/2025 10:31

So she was doing a course on ancient civilizations and had taken several books from the library. One of them was something like 'The Ancient Lands of the Bible' and she showed it to me because I am a Christian and she thought I would find it interesting (that she was reading it). The next day she told me she couldn't stop reading the book about the ancient lands of the Bible and that she wanted to read the Bible itself and could I give her a recommendation for a good translation.

As it happened, that night, I mentioned this to another close friend who randomly told me that she had a Bible on her bookshelf that she thought was from Sri Lanka. She had no idea where it came from but it had been on her shelf for ten, maybe fifteen years. She sent me a picture of it and it was indeed in my friend's language. So the next day I handed the Sinhalese Bible to my friend. To say she was shocked was an understatement!

She started to read it and at the same time became very interested in Jesus. She watched the Passion of the Christ and began drawing Jesus and says she felt a supernatural force with her as it happened. She began watching Christian content and reading up on the Bible. She told her mum on the phone and her mum told her she had also been reading the Bible, and she recommended my friend the NKJV in English as the Sri Lankan one I gave her was in an old version of the language and she wanted something easier to understand.

Unfortunately, soon after, my friend went through a very hard time. Its hard to describe without outing her, but there seemed to be no real solution and she seemed trapped in the problem for the forseeable future. She was absolutely distraught and was becoming unwell as she situation was so awful. She and I prayed a lot about her situation.

One night as I was falling asleep, I felt prompted to pray about her situation. In my mind's eye I had an image, like a very short waking dream and there was a kind of message/meaning that I inferred, that her hardship would end soon (which actually seemed very unlikely due to the nature of the problem). The next day I told her about the dream thing. The day after that, she came over to me and with tears in her eyes, said 'Take my hand. I believe in Him'.

I was really confused, so she told me that she had just got news that the difficult situation was over. She said as she was being told the good news, the room went black and all she could think about was the message in my 'dream' which had come to pass.

In all of our friendship, I had only just said things like 'Oh someone in my church has the same top as you' or 'I have a Bible study on Tuesday evening, what about Thursday instead?'. I never shared the Gospel or mentioned my faith in any way other than incidentally. I don't, generally, unless someone asks or the topic comes up very organically.

She has since told me that her mum just got baptised in Sri Lanka and they have been growing in their faith together. She is reading the Bible through very fresh eyes, different to me as I'd been through the Catholic system so it was all very familiar. My friend has such interesting perceptions and hits the nail on the head in ways I didn't think about before. Its been so amazing!

@Darkdiamond

If your friend downloads the E-sword PC app, it has a couple of Tamil versions. Tamil easy to read, and Tamil Indian Revised addition.

All free, as are those bibles. Just search for E-Sword. That's what I use.

Darkdiamond · 30/12/2025 10:47

RedTagAlan · 30/12/2025 10:42

@Darkdiamond

If your friend downloads the E-sword PC app, it has a couple of Tamil versions. Tamil easy to read, and Tamil Indian Revised addition.

All free, as are those bibles. Just search for E-Sword. That's what I use.

She speaks Sinhala which I think is different to Tamil, but I will definitely send your suggestion her way!!! Thank you very much!

Staringintothevoid616 · 30/12/2025 10:50

Darkdiamond · 30/12/2025 10:31

So she was doing a course on ancient civilizations and had taken several books from the library. One of them was something like 'The Ancient Lands of the Bible' and she showed it to me because I am a Christian and she thought I would find it interesting (that she was reading it). The next day she told me she couldn't stop reading the book about the ancient lands of the Bible and that she wanted to read the Bible itself and could I give her a recommendation for a good translation.

As it happened, that night, I mentioned this to another close friend who randomly told me that she had a Bible on her bookshelf that she thought was from Sri Lanka. She had no idea where it came from but it had been on her shelf for ten, maybe fifteen years. She sent me a picture of it and it was indeed in my friend's language. So the next day I handed the Sinhalese Bible to my friend. To say she was shocked was an understatement!

She started to read it and at the same time became very interested in Jesus. She watched the Passion of the Christ and began drawing Jesus and says she felt a supernatural force with her as it happened. She began watching Christian content and reading up on the Bible. She told her mum on the phone and her mum told her she had also been reading the Bible, and she recommended my friend the NKJV in English as the Sri Lankan one I gave her was in an old version of the language and she wanted something easier to understand.

Unfortunately, soon after, my friend went through a very hard time. Its hard to describe without outing her, but there seemed to be no real solution and she seemed trapped in the problem for the forseeable future. She was absolutely distraught and was becoming unwell as she situation was so awful. She and I prayed a lot about her situation.

One night as I was falling asleep, I felt prompted to pray about her situation. In my mind's eye I had an image, like a very short waking dream and there was a kind of message/meaning that I inferred, that her hardship would end soon (which actually seemed very unlikely due to the nature of the problem). The next day I told her about the dream thing. The day after that, she came over to me and with tears in her eyes, said 'Take my hand. I believe in Him'.

I was really confused, so she told me that she had just got news that the difficult situation was over. She said as she was being told the good news, the room went black and all she could think about was the message in my 'dream' which had come to pass.

In all of our friendship, I had only just said things like 'Oh someone in my church has the same top as you' or 'I have a Bible study on Tuesday evening, what about Thursday instead?'. I never shared the Gospel or mentioned my faith in any way other than incidentally. I don't, generally, unless someone asks or the topic comes up very organically.

She has since told me that her mum just got baptised in Sri Lanka and they have been growing in their faith together. She is reading the Bible through very fresh eyes, different to me as I'd been through the Catholic system so it was all very familiar. My friend has such interesting perceptions and hits the nail on the head in ways I didn't think about before. Its been so amazing!

Sounds an amazing journey for you both

Darkdiamond · 30/12/2025 10:55

Staringintothevoid616 · 30/12/2025 10:50

Sounds an amazing journey for you both

Completely unexpected too!

YearOfTheDrizzle · 30/12/2025 14:52

This reply has been deleted

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YogaGrinch · 30/12/2025 17:50

OneMerryUser · 29/12/2025 20:13

Hi. I am ethnically Indian and was brought up as a Hindu but have felt lost the past few years and I became an atheist because I didn’t know why so much bad stuff happened. I went to some carol services over the past month and was also appalled by what @YogaGrinch saw about what I thought was misogyny but have been really helped by some of the posts here on this thread as I completely didn’t understand a lot. I saw the way in which people talked about the Bible and Jesus and some of it started to resonate and I got one of the book recommendations by John Chapman called a fresh start and I thank you because I really think that this makes sense. I watched the alpha videos and I am signing up in January and I went to a local church that offers Christianity explored yesterday and I want to say to any of the people who shared that they are Christian’s and did so in a kind and caring and patient way with all the questions that someone was listening because I took it seriously and I already think it has made a difference to me. I’ve watched and felt sad at some of the comments that have been made and I think if this was my workplace then you’d be in trouble under the equality act in how you’ve spoken to people about their religion. I think it is possible to ask questions in a kind and polite way even if you don’t agree and I hope if there some thing that people take away from this it is that we all share different views and if we don’t agree then we should try to muster up some kindness and care in how we speak to each other. I think it says a lot that a lot of people spent their time picking on others where they didn’t even want to understand where the other person was coming from but just be as nasty as they could and I was too scared to say that I was starting to be convinced by some of the posts about Jesus because I was scared you’d be horrid to me too. But maybe i also need to say something so that some of the people know that they’re making a difference to someone they’ve never met. I know I’ll be called stupid and told I’m an idiot, but something in these posts struck me and I think it was god working through some of these humans

Dear friend please don't turn your back on Hinduism.... find yoga centers that offer pranayama meditation and contemplations... or vedanta centre.... or advaita vedanta

Hinduism teachings and scriptures so deep vast ancient wise 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

OP posts:
DurinsBane · 30/12/2025 19:25

YogaGrinch · 30/12/2025 17:50

Dear friend please don't turn your back on Hinduism.... find yoga centers that offer pranayama meditation and contemplations... or vedanta centre.... or advaita vedanta

Hinduism teachings and scriptures so deep vast ancient wise 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

I am very happy to hear that she has signed up for Alpha and has found a church that is welcoming. I respect all religions, obviously including Hinduism, but I would be very happy to hear someone is exploring Christianity

RedTagAlan · 31/12/2025 03:00

YogaGrinch · 30/12/2025 17:50

Dear friend please don't turn your back on Hinduism.... find yoga centers that offer pranayama meditation and contemplations... or vedanta centre.... or advaita vedanta

Hinduism teachings and scriptures so deep vast ancient wise 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

This is something I find interesting, this concept that ancient religions or belief systems are wise and deep.

I am in no way trying to dissuade the PP from doing an alpha course. Nope. I debate against Christianity to Christians , but it's not my place to try to convert or de-convert. Freedom of religion and freedom from religion etc.

Take Mormonism. A modern religion. Started 1830 or so by Joseph Smith, a con man. The whole history is pretty much known, The golden plates, Meroni, the " " And it came to pass" writing of the book of Mormon. The whole thing is so incredulous that it is pretty much universally accepted to be a "false" religion. Although it claims 16 million members. Note here, Mormonism has spilt too, so there are different branches.

My thinking is, if one religion can be seen as false, then why not them all ? Alternatively, why can't they all be true ?

Should we not be treating religion the same as careers at school ? Have a religion office, as well as a careers office. What religion are we best suited to personally. " Mary- Wahhabi Islam, Ahmed- Jesuit Catholic, Jane- Druze, Xiaolin- Mormon "

These thought experiments are interesting. Cos if you read the above and say what nonsense, think about how it is done now. " Mary, she has Catholic parents so she will be a Catholic, Ahmed has parents from Saudi Arabia, so Wahabi Islam"

If one looks up an Alpha course online, it says they provide and open environment to discuss religion.... but they will try to persuade you to be Christian in the end.

That is odd in a way. Would an Alpha preacher ever say, Justine, we have been checking your progress, and we don't really think you are a good fit for Christianity, but we think Scientology would be a perfect fit for you.

Should it really not be like school careers guidance ? Abigail, you can't draw, you have no artistic bent at all, why do you want to be an artist ?

Oops, this post has gone off track :-)

Right, Old religions are wise and deep ?

Yeah if we had never had the reformation, the industrial revolution, and the enlightenment, we would likely not have penicillin. We would still be doing the same ancient stuff.

Darkdiamond · 31/12/2025 08:39

RedTagAlan · 31/12/2025 03:00

This is something I find interesting, this concept that ancient religions or belief systems are wise and deep.

I am in no way trying to dissuade the PP from doing an alpha course. Nope. I debate against Christianity to Christians , but it's not my place to try to convert or de-convert. Freedom of religion and freedom from religion etc.

Take Mormonism. A modern religion. Started 1830 or so by Joseph Smith, a con man. The whole history is pretty much known, The golden plates, Meroni, the " " And it came to pass" writing of the book of Mormon. The whole thing is so incredulous that it is pretty much universally accepted to be a "false" religion. Although it claims 16 million members. Note here, Mormonism has spilt too, so there are different branches.

My thinking is, if one religion can be seen as false, then why not them all ? Alternatively, why can't they all be true ?

Should we not be treating religion the same as careers at school ? Have a religion office, as well as a careers office. What religion are we best suited to personally. " Mary- Wahhabi Islam, Ahmed- Jesuit Catholic, Jane- Druze, Xiaolin- Mormon "

These thought experiments are interesting. Cos if you read the above and say what nonsense, think about how it is done now. " Mary, she has Catholic parents so she will be a Catholic, Ahmed has parents from Saudi Arabia, so Wahabi Islam"

If one looks up an Alpha course online, it says they provide and open environment to discuss religion.... but they will try to persuade you to be Christian in the end.

That is odd in a way. Would an Alpha preacher ever say, Justine, we have been checking your progress, and we don't really think you are a good fit for Christianity, but we think Scientology would be a perfect fit for you.

Should it really not be like school careers guidance ? Abigail, you can't draw, you have no artistic bent at all, why do you want to be an artist ?

Oops, this post has gone off track :-)

Right, Old religions are wise and deep ?

Yeah if we had never had the reformation, the industrial revolution, and the enlightenment, we would likely not have penicillin. We would still be doing the same ancient stuff.

Good morning. I enjoyed your musings! I am just going to write, mostly from the heart, and if I do happen to refer Scripture, it won't be with chapter and verse, but its in there-I'll be paraphrasing as I don't have time to check the references. One of my kids will be getting up soon and we have plans today so I won't be around much and nor do I possess LovingTrayBake's eloquence!

Many people, like Traybake, started their journey into Christianity after examining the Bible. My experience, seemed to happen the other way around. Born into a Catholic family and raised in it, the Bible was something very much in the background but I didn't know it or understand it at all. As the years went on, I explored a lot of other faith systems and modalities. I read the qu'ran and went to a Buddhist centre, looked into Kabbala etc etc. I was very open, to literally everything except Christianity because I just thought it was so backward.

Cutting a very long story short, when I was pregnant, I came across a Bible verse to give encouragement when in labour. I took a screen shot of it and forgot about it. I saw the Bible as just another ancient text with some wisdom to pick and choose from, like an old self help book.

Anyway, my waters broke and there was a bit of a panic because it was quite early and they admitted me to hospital for monitoring. I was alone and opened my phone to find that bit of Scripture in my gallery. I didn't just feel like the Scripture was really appropriate, that it hit the nail on the nail, that it was spookily accurate or even that it was sent from God to comfort me. I felt like the words were somehow living and they were experiencing my situation with me, in real time. I can't explain it but the words were alive. Obviously not long after that, I had a new born who took up my time, along with a toddler, but it never left me and as the years went on more and more things started happening and I started doing more research based on that experience.

I hadn't realised that this was common among believers, that the word was described as living and that other people had this experience. When I would listen to testimonies where people would say 'the word of God is alive!' I would think 'yes!'. I started having more and more experiences that I won't go into here, but they kept leading me towards Biblical Christianity (or should I say Christ!).

Nobody evangelised to me, put pressure on me, tried to argue with me, threaten me with Hell, anything like this. This was happening very internally and by myself. My husband is as staunch an atheist as you will ever meet and I told him what was happening and he was not happy at all. I actually felt like my world was turning upside down and that something was being revealed to me and I was trying to make sense of it.

I watched lots of testimonies from people from a vastly different array of backgrounds; atheist, Jewish, agnostic, New Age, Hindu, Buddhist, pagan, witch, satanist...and they all have an almost identical moment when they come to Christ that I too had. There were times when I wished that it wasn't happening to me because at the start there were difficulties. I had to 'come out' to my family as a born again Christian, and they thought I'd gone mad. I am a very 'normal', rational, stable person and this all seemed nuts. My husband thought I'd lost my mind. Everything is fine now, once the dust settled but at the time I had a sense of 'this is the truth and I can't unknow it' and I had to let the chips in my life fall where ever they landed.

This was 7 years ago and it has been a journey but all I compare it to (badly) is someone showing me a young man and telling me that he is my brother. The man looks just like me, has my mannerisms and I know in my heart he is my brother. On the table is the results of a DNA test in their raw form and I am trying to work my way through them. I don't always understand it but I have the proof with me and the book is backing up what I already know. Terrible analogy I know.

Certainly in the eyes of believers, Christ is the only way to heaven. There is a misconception that Christians are smug, thinking they are perfect and love telling others how bad they are. In reality, its like we discovered something very important and want other people to know, urgently. That Jesus is the only way to Heaven, and not by anything we can do but by what he already did. Christianity is the only faith system that does not rely on human effort to get to heaven. Its the only faith where God is a father. The post above advising someone to maintain their Hindu roots in Christianity is problematic, for example, as Brahman and God the Father are not the same entity.

So maybe there could be a careers class in school where you pick your religion based on your personality type, but in Christianity, you change with it and don't end up the way you started. We all have different personalities and are all different parts of the same body. The Holy Spirit transforms you from the inside out and you are conformed to the image of Christ as time goes on, and use your different personally types to serve God in different ways.

A lot of this was very personal so I may ask for it to be removed later, but ultimately these are my early morning musings. I hope I didn't go off on too much of a tangent, but these are words that I never dreamt I would be writing. It is exactly 7 years tomorrow that I felt God really come into my life; New Years' Day 2019. I suppose I am feeling reflective today

Right, I better go and wake my daughter so we can go on our our outing!

Happy New Year!

Darkdiamond · 31/12/2025 08:39

I am SO sorry that was so long!!!!

RedTagAlan · 31/12/2025 10:32

@Darkdiamond

Yup, your road to Damascus story. Good interesting story. Fair enough, and I won't try to rubbish it or explain it away, it's personal to you, and belongs to you. It's wrong for anyone to try to take it from you.

My moment of seeing the light was a quarter century ago, half way across the Atlantic in a Jumbo. But I have now attacked it myself, and me, totally rubbished it, and now understand I was wrong.

Maybe one day you will do the same, and give up on it. No idea. That's totally up to you.

However, if you post online that the Bible is true ( in a general chat thread), then you become fair game, and you will be debated :-)

Personally, I think it's bad form for atheists like me to debate Christians on Christian threads, but by jove, if you venture out, prepare to be challenged LOL.

Happy new year to your good self too :-)

ByLovingTraybake · 31/12/2025 12:57

Darkdiamond · 31/12/2025 08:39

Good morning. I enjoyed your musings! I am just going to write, mostly from the heart, and if I do happen to refer Scripture, it won't be with chapter and verse, but its in there-I'll be paraphrasing as I don't have time to check the references. One of my kids will be getting up soon and we have plans today so I won't be around much and nor do I possess LovingTrayBake's eloquence!

Many people, like Traybake, started their journey into Christianity after examining the Bible. My experience, seemed to happen the other way around. Born into a Catholic family and raised in it, the Bible was something very much in the background but I didn't know it or understand it at all. As the years went on, I explored a lot of other faith systems and modalities. I read the qu'ran and went to a Buddhist centre, looked into Kabbala etc etc. I was very open, to literally everything except Christianity because I just thought it was so backward.

Cutting a very long story short, when I was pregnant, I came across a Bible verse to give encouragement when in labour. I took a screen shot of it and forgot about it. I saw the Bible as just another ancient text with some wisdom to pick and choose from, like an old self help book.

Anyway, my waters broke and there was a bit of a panic because it was quite early and they admitted me to hospital for monitoring. I was alone and opened my phone to find that bit of Scripture in my gallery. I didn't just feel like the Scripture was really appropriate, that it hit the nail on the nail, that it was spookily accurate or even that it was sent from God to comfort me. I felt like the words were somehow living and they were experiencing my situation with me, in real time. I can't explain it but the words were alive. Obviously not long after that, I had a new born who took up my time, along with a toddler, but it never left me and as the years went on more and more things started happening and I started doing more research based on that experience.

I hadn't realised that this was common among believers, that the word was described as living and that other people had this experience. When I would listen to testimonies where people would say 'the word of God is alive!' I would think 'yes!'. I started having more and more experiences that I won't go into here, but they kept leading me towards Biblical Christianity (or should I say Christ!).

Nobody evangelised to me, put pressure on me, tried to argue with me, threaten me with Hell, anything like this. This was happening very internally and by myself. My husband is as staunch an atheist as you will ever meet and I told him what was happening and he was not happy at all. I actually felt like my world was turning upside down and that something was being revealed to me and I was trying to make sense of it.

I watched lots of testimonies from people from a vastly different array of backgrounds; atheist, Jewish, agnostic, New Age, Hindu, Buddhist, pagan, witch, satanist...and they all have an almost identical moment when they come to Christ that I too had. There were times when I wished that it wasn't happening to me because at the start there were difficulties. I had to 'come out' to my family as a born again Christian, and they thought I'd gone mad. I am a very 'normal', rational, stable person and this all seemed nuts. My husband thought I'd lost my mind. Everything is fine now, once the dust settled but at the time I had a sense of 'this is the truth and I can't unknow it' and I had to let the chips in my life fall where ever they landed.

This was 7 years ago and it has been a journey but all I compare it to (badly) is someone showing me a young man and telling me that he is my brother. The man looks just like me, has my mannerisms and I know in my heart he is my brother. On the table is the results of a DNA test in their raw form and I am trying to work my way through them. I don't always understand it but I have the proof with me and the book is backing up what I already know. Terrible analogy I know.

Certainly in the eyes of believers, Christ is the only way to heaven. There is a misconception that Christians are smug, thinking they are perfect and love telling others how bad they are. In reality, its like we discovered something very important and want other people to know, urgently. That Jesus is the only way to Heaven, and not by anything we can do but by what he already did. Christianity is the only faith system that does not rely on human effort to get to heaven. Its the only faith where God is a father. The post above advising someone to maintain their Hindu roots in Christianity is problematic, for example, as Brahman and God the Father are not the same entity.

So maybe there could be a careers class in school where you pick your religion based on your personality type, but in Christianity, you change with it and don't end up the way you started. We all have different personalities and are all different parts of the same body. The Holy Spirit transforms you from the inside out and you are conformed to the image of Christ as time goes on, and use your different personally types to serve God in different ways.

A lot of this was very personal so I may ask for it to be removed later, but ultimately these are my early morning musings. I hope I didn't go off on too much of a tangent, but these are words that I never dreamt I would be writing. It is exactly 7 years tomorrow that I felt God really come into my life; New Years' Day 2019. I suppose I am feeling reflective today

Right, I better go and wake my daughter so we can go on our our outing!

Happy New Year!

Thank you so much for sharing this — I found it deeply moving, and I’m genuinely grateful you took the time (and courage) to write it. There were so many similarities between some of what you’ve said and experienced, and in your journey to faith, as for me.

What you describe about the words of Scripture feeling alive will resonate with so many believers, even if each of our stories looks different on the surface.

I was especially struck by the quiet, unforced way you describe being drawn to Christ. No pressure, no coercion, no fear — just truth steadily making itself known; I found that incredibly moving. That sense of “I can’t unknow this now” is, I think, familiar to many of us. Not triumphal, not smug — just awed, and at times unsettled, by grace!

Thank you too for your clarity about what makes Christianity distinct. The idea that salvation rests not on what we do, but on what Christ has already done, really is good news — especially for those of us who know our own limits and failures all too well. I found that deeply encouraging and it is a beautiful reminder of light in the darkness.

Happy New Year to you — and I hope your day out with your daughter is a joyful one!

Fairywingsandroses · 20/01/2026 10:13

Muffsies · 24/12/2025 19:52

Christians follow the teachings of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Depending on which denomination you belong to, the Old Testament has varying degrees of importance. Generally, the Catholics and CofE are not Bible-based, in that they believe the OT is an important historical text, but it is not to be followed to the letter. When Christ died a new coventant was made with God, and we don't follow things in the OT like not eating pork, etc. Besides, even the Popes aknowledge that the OT has a lot of mixed messages and is contrary to how Jesus was teaching us to live.

But we do believe that Christ’s coming was foretold in the Old Testament. I’m Cof E, go to a local church and also a home group. The Old Testament is a very important part of our services and study.

Myoldbear · 20/01/2026 11:17

Fairywingsandroses · 20/01/2026 10:13

But we do believe that Christ’s coming was foretold in the Old Testament. I’m Cof E, go to a local church and also a home group. The Old Testament is a very important part of our services and study.

Yes, Jesus said that he fulfilled the Old Testament, not replaced it.

The Old Testament is essential in order to help us to know more about Jesus, and about the basic framework of how to try to live.

However,Jesus shows us maturity of faith. He shows us how the commandments of Moses can be interpreted by love.

In other words you need to understand the rules in the first place before you are able to try to supercede them with living love.

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