Are women / girls just so desperate to get married ?

[itsoneofthosethingss]

I observed something in my H’s family, that also includes me.

all the men in my H’s family, have married women from abroad. In all cases the women had come to the UK for study or work or whatever it is and met the men and decided to stay, for love I guess. In all cases the men made ultimatums that there is no way they’d ever leave the UK and if the women wanted a future with them, they’d need to agree to stay here.

I had been here for ages before I met my husband, so I was sort of fine with it. However I wouldn’t rule out, leaving the UK for a ‘ better ‘ life if that’s even possible. I would absolutely consider it. He wouldn’t.

anyway, recently another woman joined the family and is faced with the same ultimatum and he’s going to take it. A possible wedding was under discussion and the groom felt it wouldn’t be fair to do the wedding in the brides home country either. He felt it needs to be in a neutral place. So it’s ok for you to give the bride an ultimatum that you will never move away for her AND you don’t want to even hold the wedding in her country because it’s ‘ unfair ‘ to you ?

am I completely bonkers in thinking that sometimes women ( myself included ) are so fucking desperate to get married and have kids that they’ll accept this ?

I am not sad about my choice to be here, but I am a bit disappointed in myself that I didn’t at least manage to choose a partner who was a bit more open to a potential move. Even if it didn’t happen. I don’t mean move to my ‘ home ‘, but perhaps somewhere else. Or someone who’d at least consider it.

but I was so desperate to get married and have kids that I went along with it. Even though I did protest that the consideration of a move should be there, at least in theory.

now, many years later, I do sometimes feel resentful. I think if you’re from abroad and would like the possibility to consider moving back or somewhere else, your partner should at least say they’re open to that and that should be YOUR bottom line.

It sounds like maybe you have married into quite a traditional patriarchal family where men have sought out women who fit a certain mould.

I’m from abroad, Dh is British. He wasn’t particularly keen to leave the UK permanently (we met working abroad but with no intention to settle in the country where we met). I was very keen to move to the UK as I didn’t like my home country (even though it’s one lots of Brits want to move to).

I got married in my early 30s. I had built a great career before marriage, got a PhD after and continued to build my career. I have a very happy marriage (18 years on) and very happy to have emigrated and to have married Dh. I definitely wasn’t desperate to get married and feel no resentment about that choice now. So no, not all women are like this, but it does sound like the men in your husband’s family have been raised to seek out a certain type. Not all men want that type.

I don’t regret the choice per se. But I reckon a stronger woman would have stood up for herself more and said, ‘my non negotiable is that there has to be at least the possibility to move away one day ‘.

I am not saying I would move away, but I’m totally open to it if jobs etc made sense. The UK is hard. There may be other places where we could have an easier life.

all of us are super successful btw. Holders of several degrees, lawyers, accountants, teachers. So it’s not like we don’t/ didn’t have choices.

In your family, women are the ones who have moved, but many men do it too.

I actually think it's fair enough to say before marriage that you aren't willing to move to another country. The other person can then make an informed choice about whether or not they still want to get married.

I am from the UK but DH and I were both living overseas in a third country when we met. He subsequently came back to the UK with me. I would certainly be open to living overseas again, but for various reasons, I would not be willing to live in his country of origin - I visit his country often, I respect his culture, and there are many things about it that I'm happy to embrace, but I just wouldn't want to live there. He has known this from the start and doesn't have an issue with it.

A really confusing post. Are you from overseas?

I wouldn’t move overseas either so if my ( non existent) dh was from a different country I’d be saying the same. Nothing wrong with setting out your stall.

To answer your question I do think a lot of women are desperate to get married, yes. Its still held up as the pinnacle of achievement for women.

The men in your family sound particularly traditional and backward to be honest and have taken advantage of this.

But the point stands outside of this. So many women think marriage is the end goal of their lives. It massively limits their own options and ambitions. Its very sad.

Particularly because of the huge imbalance between the way men perceive it and women perceive it. Women invest their entire lives into making marriage work, often sacrificing their own financial independence and autonomy. For men its usually just a useful practical crutch which they only notice when its gone and their clothes are no longer being washed.

Marriage has its uses for sure, mainly if you can’t work, but it’s vastly overrated and overvalued by most women.

I would never have married across national borders because the risks if he leaves and then insists any child stays in his country, leaving us stranded, would be too great.

My niece, who did, struggled to bring her dd home from the USA when they split.

So I'm like the men in your family (and in the end, I chose not to marry at all).

Now ds is nearly an adult, it would be more attractive.

I do think some women are desperate for a family. I think that mostly means children to them but they also want the traditional family set up.

I don't know why really. I get the wanting children bit, but restricting yourself and your life for a bloke is nuts. I've had 2 LTR and both of them were very conventional and eventually I got sick of their inability to see life in any other way, other than one little tunnel vision and moved on from them.

I guess it just adds to the reasons why women instigate most divorces.

While they may be in love, part of the attraction of marriage might be staying in the UK.

I’m from abroad and tbf we never had that conversation because I actually wanted to live here, but I would’ve kicked off if given an ultimatum.

Well you chose this man. You could have found a different one with a different outlook and values. Are you saying you were so desperate to get married that you jumped at the first likely offer? At ‘any available offer’ before you turned a certain age? That you settled rather than finding real love and compatibility?

My thought would be that women who are keen to marry young / by a certain age, who don’t naturally meet the love of their life early, need to be really focused and hard-headed about playing the field and recognising that dating is a numbers game.

I think in large part its sold to them relentlessly from birth in the culture. Fairytales, books, tv, social media, movies, friendship groups. Its the happy ending to most stories aimed at girls. If you don’t attain that goal you are in some way dysfunctional.

Also people are often not very honest about the legal and financial or the emotional aspects. Marriage is presented as this huge Disneyfied finale which resolves everything and takes away all problems and that your husband will never cheat and never get bored and you will never get ill or lose a job or fight with your family and it will all be perfect.

They are then ill educated and poorly equipped for when it goes wrong.

I think that some of the wanting to get married does stem from the biological want to have children.

I am now a bit older and in my bad moments I think ‘ I was a catch, I could have found someone who would have prioritised my wants and needs too. ‘

now watching younger females make the same choices and I know that the particular female is extremely close with her family and she has no real concept of understanding what she’s signing up for. She must just really want the guy and it’s overriding being able to see what the reality really means, once they have kids etc. and the fact he is even unwilling to consider having a wedding in her country because it wouldn’t be fair on him.

I just think, who do these men think they are ? They’re not that great. But again, that need to marry seems strong on the females side, as was the case for me too.

@itsoneofthosethingss I'm going to go with YABU. I think your hypothesis is wrong, basically. Do I think some people make compromises in relationships that mean they are destined to ultimately be unhappy? Of course. But yours is such a niche example that overall it seems unlikely.

and WRT "But I reckon a stronger woman would have stood up for herself more and said, ‘my non negotiable is that there has to be at least the possibility to move away one day ‘."

All you'd end up with there is a future faker. Chances are your partner would agree to this, and then 10 years down the line say they don't want to, so you wouldn't be in any different a position.

Now, is this thread actually about your specific relationship and you being unhappy? As posing hypotheticals is unlikely to get you the advice you are looking for if so.

Is it not just the normal thing in marriage to have some conflict about where you live. I imagine if you love someone you may be flexible on things like where you live for them. Did you marry your Dh because you loved him or because he was there and you wanted a family?

I think you’ve just married into a weirdly patriarchal family. DH and I are originally from the same country, but have moved around a lot internationally over the years, with both of us needing to agree on the next move — I also spent half of every year working in another county to him for years. He was the one who wanted to get married. I turned him down lots of times, not because I didn’t love him, but because I didn’t like the institution. And we have lots of couple friends where the two people are from different countries, but live in a third, or where the man lives in the woman’s home country.

I don't want to move countries and I'd flag that if I was in a relationship where it was likely to be an issue out of fairness to the other person. Better to deal with these things before children come than after.

That’s what I mean, there should be compromise.

not ultimatums. Of course I loved him. But did he really love me? Not sure. If I was his absolute dream woman etc, would there have been compromise ? Probably.

I am female. I married someone from the UK, but if I had met a foreign national and started dating them, I definitely would have told them that I would never consider moving elsewhere. It would have been absolutely off the table. If they wanted to marry me they would need to accept that they either stay in this country with me or they divorce me and leave. Their choice to marry me when they're in full possession of the facts. It's not an ultimatum, it's just being honest.

Of course I think it's likely that in general women are probably keener to marry earlier than men due to their biological clocks. Maybe this means some women make poor decisions regarding compatibility. But the compatibility issues can be anything at all, not just location.

I think it's fine as long as they tell you in good time (ie before you're too invested) so you can decide if you're happy with that. Surely it's no different to someone saying upfront that they don't want kids, or anything else that could be a potential deal breaker?

I think she’d have ended up with a different husband. She’d have spotted his bullshit and moved on.

This highlights another reason why women gaining experience before settling down is so important. Experience of social interaction, dating and socialising with a number of men - especially socialising with men who are talking about their relationships. Developing your own social and emotional intelligence, knowledge and field of reference gives you power. Pattern recognition. Power to identify and reject bullshitters.

No wonder the patriarchy promotes ‘princess marriage’ to young, inexperienced women.

Yeah I don’t know.

I want to raise my DD to value herself and not compromise on something as important as this.

I was 23 when I met my H so not that young but still young. But my self esteem was always in the toilet. I never thought that much of myself. Even though I had everything going for me.

I think some more patriarchal British men are attracted to non-British women because they think they will be more compliant.

I guess my experience is very different in that my brother married in England because he was moving to his new wife’s home (Canada). Immigration rules in the uk make it virtually impossible for his wife to move here following her 3 years she worked here studying and as a teacher so he will remain in Canada whether he wants to or not. He has a great life but I know he gets homesick and struggled when our parents were unwell this year with being so far away.

When my husband asked me to marry him I set my stall out. I would only say yes if one day I could move home to my own country. He agreed and that’s what we did before having children. I have seen friends desperate to get married and end of living in places they don’t want to live. I am not saying it should all be in the way of the woman. Our move made sense as we could never have had the lifestyle we have if we had stayed in England.