Was my daughter in the wrong ?

[Donury236]

So, teenage girls, aaargh. My head, honestly!!

My eldest has adhd with significant asd traits - this is very relevant as she has a very Very strong justice 'thing'.

If you significantly wrong her, or anyone she will let you know, and if its something that she sees as done ti purposefully hurt then shes will want nothing more to do with someone.

Today she was taken out of class by a teacher in rrlation to some goings on. She was told by the tr
eacher that she was a nasty girl, and evil bully and an embarassment...(thats verbatim btw...a 40yr old woman called a 16yr old.girl that).

Why? Well, eldest had a friend, S. S didnt have may friends anymore (relevant). eldest was really nice to S, they shared classes, sat next to each other for 1, I gave the kid lift a home with us after school on a friday.

1 day suddenly S just blanks eldest. Totally ignores her. No explanation.
Eldest is like, Ok whatever, gets on with classes, this had also.happened with a few other folk earlier that year.

It then turns out that S had been telling other kids eldest didnt like them/didnt want them in groups with them. Which is a load of bull, and explained why these people had suddenly not been speaking to her. This is what activated eldests cut them off decision. This is also apprently why S had such a non existent friend pool as this is her MO since primary.
S decided though, that when the seating was rearranged in a class to sit inbetween eldest and her best friend. So S sits there in silence, dorsnt engage either of them at all. Blanks them.
They are literally talking/working over her.

Eventually eldest had enough of it and BF took S seat - they did move her stuff off the place which I was not enamored with I wouldnt want someone touching her stuff either.
Eldest and BF were on snapchat in class (yes they shouldn't have been) messing about as it was a double and it was a brain break. They are neurospicy fools so post stupid face pics - and they also have a closed group that see these pics and stories (no one S is friends with - this is relevant!)

Fast forward to a day or so after, they get hauled in as apparently they were videoing S and sharing it with people on snapchat and S says she heard eldest say she wanted to smash her face into the desk, and calling her a bitch.

And, of course, you can't prove whats on snapchap, so they apparently have to believe S.
Eldest said she explained everything that happened. The teacher has said that S was open to having a discussion about eldest apogising for the video etc, and of course eldest said she was not interested in talking to S as A) there was no video so nothing ti apologise for b) it will achieve nothing other than S to accuse her of all sorts. I have said have the meeting, and when you apologise say your are sorry that she thinks she was videod, that she think a she should be allowed to lie, that she thinks false accusations are good things to make, ans sorry that she is under the impression she deserves an apology. But apparently that will get her into more trouble.

As eldest is also a prefect she is worried they could take that away from her. Also her BF didnt get taken out of class, which is why I know its a baseless vendetta from a kid that seems to thrice on being the victim at the centre of drama.

NgL, mama bear is pissed. I usually.let her navigate friendships herself as she is very mature about it. But we do seem to stumble when it comes to manipulative people as we cant think like them, and it gets us upset, so.ive found it hard to explain to her how to navigate that other than to leave well alone - which clearly does not work!! As here we are!

A have now decided its time I wade in, so awaiting a call back from the school for a good explanation of what they think gave them the right to say that to a kid, and how they concluded she was guilty, and ehy want i co tacted about this at thr start.

It is unreasonable of me to weigh in. Eldest is 16 and in 5th year, so legally she is the one with the enrollment/agreement with the school. But also...she is still a kid!

mama bear is pissed

I am embarrassed for you. I really am.

The apple hasn't fallen far from the tree has it?

Its a lot of words to minimise your DD's behaviour.

And put all the blame on poor S!

I guess the OP didn't get the response they wanted...

We only have one side of the story but it sounds very much like the OP's daughter was bullying this girl, so well done to the teacher for pulling her up on this.

At 16 years old what nasty childish behaviour talking over this girl then swapping seats and moving her stuff.

You sound like a teen.

Teacher’s language was completely awful. Your DD’s behaviour was awful.
🤷‍♀️

Yes, she was, and her neurodivergence has nothing to do with it, she was unnecessarily mean and neither ADHD nor ASD are an excuse for mean girl behaviour. Fair enough, she doesn't want to be friends with S. But she should not be moving S's things, taking her seat, or filming in class. Filming and being silly in class isn't a "brain break", it's teenagers messing about and pushing the boundaries, as they all do.

Being neurodivergent doesn't make you act the fool either. Being a bored teenager in a double period may well do though. And stop infantilising her by calling her a "neurospicy fool" - ugh. This is the kind of nonsense that's making everyone get heartily sick of the ND movement, and making it harder for those of us who just want to get on with life, get along with people as much as we can, and exist in education and workplaces on an equal footing.

Sounds like the teacher went in pretty hard, but having zero tolerance for bullying is fair enough really. Even if she didn't do the filming, the mean behaviour previously is likely to have led the teacher to think the accusation had some truth in it. And if you are raising one of these ND kids that leans on it as an excuse for all forms of crappy behaviour, someone will at some point have to teach her that out in the big wide world, not everyone will excuse everything like her mum does. Perhaps she will think twice before being bitchy to another child and fooling about with her phone in class next time.

And YABU for using the terms "neurospicy" (which by the way has racist connotations) and "mama bear". Eww.

As if she called your daughter an evil bully. Didn’t read beyond this tbh as it sounds like a pile of horse shir.

If your DD is ND then she has most likely only taken in parts of what the teacher said. 'What you have done is... which comes under discrimination as... ' are bits that aren't heard, only the accusatory vocabulary.

Choosing to do something which is against the rules has consequences, whether the aim is to stick up for a friend or anything.

My DC is exactly the same and will kick off if they feel sth is unfair and I love they have this sense of injustice. However it isn't always the case and I have to constantly reaffirm that issues are dealt with but they can't see that in front of them. So yes they do need to understand ways to control their behaviour as out in society you can't just kick off. Xxx

I can believe your dd was a bully. Is a bully. She moved the other girls stuff. She also used Snapchat in class, etc. but yes let’s excuse her because she’s ‘neurospicy’

Are you neurodivergent yourself?

Teenage arguments. Two sides to every story, with the truth usually somewhere in the middle.

I sympathise a bit as my nd son will absolutely not apologise if he feels it's an unjust situation, his brain would literally melt. However, your dd has done wrong here really hasn't she. Being on Snapchat in class, moving the girls stuff without talking to her or a teacher first. Not staying friends with someone is ok, but ignoring, excluding them and moving their seat in a lesson - nd or not, she knows that's more than just keeping away from someone manipulative.
I think speak to school because being forced to apologise is not teaching her anything at all, she needs to work through what's happened calmly without the threat attached to it. Then she needs to understand all she has done that doesn't reach her own standard of behaviour. She also needs to be told in no uncertain terms that her phone is a privilege and not for lesson times and getting it out during lessons results in this type of misunderstanding. Once she's calmly, with your support, worked out what she's done wrong, she needs to think about fixing it. Maybe it's you supporting her with an apology, maybe its a letter if that's easier for her to manage. I would definitely work with the school to find a way for her to right what she's done as I can see the meeting will be a car crash if she's got a strong justice drive. I also find with the justice drive challenge in our house, forcing something just makes them entrench more and become stubborn and over react. What you need is for her to calmly evaluate her behaviour and realise the errors she has made here and then fix it appropriately, rather than dragging her kicking and screaming and fighting her own views.

Leave the friendship thing aside and let your child sort that herself. But the teacher saying that?? - get straight to the head teacher quicksmart. Write a letter now while it’s fresh and you feel strongly- about the teacher saying something entirely inappropriate.

‘Neurospicy fools’ - this is utterly appalling. Regardless of any diagnosis, surely they know they shouldn’t be
playing with phones at school?

If your daughter had a history of behaving badly at school, don’t be surprised that teachers give the benefit of the doubt to the other child.

Stop using her diagnosis as a free pass to be badly behaved. You’re doing her no favours.

Sounds like your daughter needs her phone taking away if she can't be in class without using it to bully another student. I'd also suggest it's almost definitely due to the phone that she is a "neurospicy fool".

Remember that teenagers can't be trusted to tell you the whole truth. I'd leave the school to deal with it.

Utter poor management of mobile phones in school. Behaviour policy should be non judgmental and it’s the policy versus the student not the teacher versus the student. Clearly there is context involved but your child shouldn’t have been using her phone, it’s not a grey area and you can’t be justice about one issue and not about another.

I would definitely relay the context to her teacher or year lead, question their mobile phone policy, their behaviour policy and then I would not let my child have said phone at school until she proves she can be socially responsible with it.

I have a strong belief that Australia got it right, children shouldn’t have social media because they don’t have the necessary social skills to be able to communicate wisely on it. Think about all your social mistakes of the past, they weren’t permanently plastered on sm for all to see.

I’ve read this 3 times and still ant even fathom it!!

1. The teacher decides who sits where
2. They shouldn’t have phones out in class or be on social media
3. You only have one side of the story
4. Teen girls can be extremely nasty and may have pretended to video the girl to wind her up
5. Encourage your daughter to attend the meeting and come to a mutual agreement that they stay away from each other unless they can be civil.

Neurospicy has no racist connotations.
Spicy - sure
Neurospicy - no. You just took a leap (and a wrong one)
Here's a reference: https://stimpunks.org/glossary/neurospicy/

I gave up reading, sorry. But I did get the impression that your daughter isn’t entirely blameless.

Snap chat does not actually delete your pics, it stores them with, sort of a label telling the phone to ignore them.

It's not a straight forward thing but can be done. Are they prepared to hand their phones over?

So your 16 year old was talking over someone in class and then her friend moved seats and moved the other girl's property.

Was taking photos in class and using Snapchat. Snapchat is often used to bully so I'm not surprised the teacher called her that.

You sound overly involved in your daughter’s life and determined to justify her bad behaviour with excuses.

I learnt a long time ago when my teens tell me things that have happened they often leave out quite significant things that they have done and only mention the parts that others have done to them. Don't get involved

This.

You don't know what the teacher said "verbatim" (your daughter's recollection sounds decidedly un-teachery!).

She shouldn't have had her phone in class and now she's facing consequences.

You are way too emotionally involved in her friendship dramas.

She has to face the consequences of her actions and turn go to that meeting - even if it’s to her reiterate her point.

You engaging on that should not occur - she’s old enough, irrespective of her disabilities to manage that.

However where I would engage is the horrific way she’s been spoken too. Under no circumstances should she have been name called by a teacher this way. I would be taking that up directly.

So your child excludes another child from conversations, uses her phone in class, and you want to wade in with the school.
Maybe start with wading in with your daughter, excluding another child is bullying and is a nasty evil thing to do. I doubt the teacher used those words, but either way they are true. Phone use is not good either, she is basically telling the teacher 'screw your rules, I'll do what I want.
Instead of wading in at the school maybe teach your child her behaviour was not acceptable at all, keep the phone at home during school hours, and stop trying to justify her actions by bringing ADHD and neurospicy into it. Her medical conditions does not give a green card for her behaviour to others