Can you say no?

[bridgetreilly]

In various discussions lately, I’ve seen people saying that even to ask for something is rude or cheeky or CFery. To me, this is baffling, If I ask, I assume that one of the possible answers is no, but if I don’t ask, then I won’t know if it might have been yes. And, similarly, if I am asked for a favour, I do not feel obliged to say yes.

So, Mumsnetters, what say you?

YABU: asking is cheeky and rude and assumes you will do what they ask for.
YANBU: asking is asking and it’s perfectly fine to refuse.

I honestly don't know how MNetters get through life. Every human interaction tends to be turned into "was it rude?" or massive overreaction about BoUnDaRiEs.
Maybe it's because I am European but things are very straightforward to me. Ask if you want or need something, say yes or no to a request when asked. Life is really quite simple like that.

YANBU. I was conditioned as a child to believe that putting people in the position of having to tell you "no" was very rude as the poor loves would be traumatised. All very British and middle class. I'm cured, now.

It’s very rude, inconsiderate, ill-mannered, and what all to ask something of someone where you know very well they'll struggle to say ‘No’, though the request is an imposition; maybe pushing it.
It’s not enough to tell yourself that it’s up to them to deflect you, and tough titty if they cannot.
One ought not put people into positions (with requests) where they've no clear exit.

Haha! I just posted the reverse of this, so that’s me tellt.

Okay, but it’s pretty easy to ask a question that gives an easy exit.

”Would you be able to pick up XXX from Brownies today, or does that make things tricky for you?”

”Can I eat the last mince pie or were you saving it?”

”Is it okay if I bring my dog or would you prefer not?”

I think it’s only rude if you’re not genuinely prepared to accept “no” as an answer.

I’d always prefer someone ask - but then I don’t have a particular issue saying “no” to things.

And why on earth would anyone want to perpetuate this? We teach children that they can say no, don’t we?

All those examples would be fine to me. What I would find rude would be things like:

Would you be able to pick up XXX from Brownies today? I can’t collect her and otherwise she won’t be able to go and it’s her Christmas party; she’s been looking forward to it all year.

You don’t mind if I eat the last mince pie, do you?

Is it OK if I bring my dog? He won’t be any trouble, and he hates being alone.

There's a world of difference between pushy CFery and asking a question while accepting that you may be refused.

Yeah and this is EXACTLY how these things are always asked!! I struggle with No but luckily my DP is great at it so I often say I have to check with him and I let him say no for me!!

It’s easy to say no. The trick is you need to have a few prepared answers so that if you are put on the spot then you can use one of those.

It’s even easier for me to say no, when someone is telling me rather than asking me.

Oh but you are giving an ‘out’ there. That’s exactly what I meant. Avoiding having the other person be left feeling they've no option but agreement.

(I omitted a different form of this coercion though rudeness, which is asking something of a person in your debt in some way (or a subordinate), who you know would feel they are honour bound to agree to anything you might ask of them, no matter how out of order you might be.)

The 'get out' must be included and even reiterated IMO. 'Can you pick up Molly for me? Or are you not going that way? If you're not it's totally fine. I know you go the other route sometimes ...' .

Also i think that a high percentage of times when you might dither about asking is because you know damn well that the 'real' answer would be 'i really don't want to' rather than 'i can't'. And that is where the awkwardness creeps in. People are having to fib.

''Ohh I'd love to help, but really can't be arsed ...''

says no one ever.

Yes all these questions are rude and I would have no issue saying no to any of them.

or rather “yes” to the mince pie one. “Yes I do mind, I’ll have it thanks for asking”
Eats mince pie.

I can relate. I used to find saying no incredibly difficult, but the more I did it the easier it got and the world didn't end. If someone is being unreasonable and pushy I almost ENJOY not complying. I tell myself I'm doing them a favour by altering their unrealistic expectations of others 😆

I think it depends what it is! I’m pregnant at the moment and my biggest peeve is people treating me like the designated driver. If I want to give people a lift I will offer - I hate it when it’s the end of the night and I’m desperate to get home someone puts me on the spot so they can save themselves £10 in a cab! Some just ask outright and others give it “oh I’m just going to walk home” … so I’m left with a choice of give a lift or let my tipsy friend walk at night for 30 minutes on her own 😩

Depends entirely on what's being asked. Can I use your bathroom, yes. Can I have a kidney, no!

Neither of your answers.

Yes, it’s fine to say no.

Asking someone you know will give you a straight answer, also fine.

Asking someone when you know they don’t like saying no, could be CF and should give you pause.

A clear exit is to say no. The world isn't actually going to fall apart. And no, I don't engage in mind reading either. I have no idea whether someone is or isn't in a position to help me until I ask them.

It depends what they are asking for.

Ex asking me to drop him at the train station after vsisting ds. Perfectly OK, and fine to say no if not convenient.

Ex asking to stay at my new flat two nights weekly, after we split, because he was too tight fisted to book a travel lodge when travelling for work, was blatant cheeky fuckery. I still told him not to be so ridiculous. It's the arrogance of thinking I would even consider it that pissed me off.

Exactly! In these examples, all exits are pre-emptively blocked. This is precisely the rude stuff I was ineptly getting at.
It’s manipulative, and many couldn’t refuse, no matter how lily-livered the jury here would view that.

Of course it depends on the question! It’s cheeky to ask ‘hey you are driving your child to school every day so it’s easy for you to take my two as well. And to football practise? And can you give them a lift to Jonny’s party this weekend’? With no offer of reciprocity - cheeky. But ‘hey how about we car pool the drive to school? This week I drop off you collect, next week the other way round’? Do you see the difference? One cheeky, one perfectly reasonable.

I can happily say no but i also understand that some people struggle with it. I think it really depends what you are asking for as to how rude it is. Also if you know someone struggles with saying no and you still ask them then that is manipulation not simply asking a question.

To take it to an extreme, "Could you give me £100 please?" to someone you're not particularly close to. Yes no is an acceptable answer but it's surely cheeky to even ask!