Why do so many people talk about moving abroad like it’s just a matter of getting up and leaving?

[Ballondor]

Don’t get me wrong, I understand for some people, it is easy - those who’re mega-rich, those with a different or dual nationality. But I see it regularly on here and other social media - if this happens, I’m leaving; it’s crap here, I’m leaving; if they do that, I’m leaving.

As I understand it, post-Brexit, just upping sticks, uprooting your entire life, and rocking up somewhere is a slightly more convoluted and lengthy process. It’s not something you can get sorted overnight.

If you know lots of people with multiple passports and multiple homes, I don't think you can speak for how easy it is for the average person to move to a different country. You are not a 'normal' person.

Because pretty much it is OP. If you factor in different groups eg young people - very easy and prob no ties, many of DC friends have EU passports or can go to Oz on working visa. A bit more tricky for those with children but very doable. Remember many if these people are professionals, they are used to making things happen, they don’t look at the issues/problems they just look at what needs to be done and they do it because they are motivated.

Having professional qualifications and a bit of money gives you many options. The government needs to wake up. When you see the migration figures it’s worth remembering that there’s a difference in those leaving and those arriving as regards qualifications and means.

I live in London and we work in professional jobs. Pretty much everyone in our circle has at least one other nationality they can tap into and works in big companies with transferable skills and has connections in other countries (either friends from uni, professionally or family). So yes, it is easy to leave and up sticks if you want to. Made even easier now that there are English speaking private schools in most countries.

In the situation you describe, they don't mean it. Its hyperbole.

The data for duel citizens in the UK for is in the 2021 census, for England and Wales. From the link below.

In 2021, across England and Wales, 1.26 million usual residents held multiple passports (2.1%), up from 612,000 (1.1%) in 2011.

1.2% of UK-born residents were UK-other dual citizens (587,600), rising from 0.5% in 2011 (231,600); for non-UK-born residents, 6.5% were UK-other dual citizens in 2021 (648,700), rising from 5.1% in 2011 (381,200).

It's not many. Add to that, so far as I can figure out, about half of the holders were born abroad, and the UK passport is there 2nd ? Am I reading that right ?

So anyone saying their social group being majority dual citizens is likely in a minority. Except Northern Ireland of course, where folk can get both.

Link here:

Dual citizens living in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk)

Plenty of people have a second home in Northern France, in Poland, a flat in Spain etc type thing, not necessarily a multimillion glitzy huge flat in Paris or Milan. The former can be perfectly standard professional couples with kids who are just fed up of being squeezed middle here and will possibly get a better lifestyle and more money in another country. It is what it is.
If you have open borders for many years and most of your professional class then comes from that or has connections with that and is your tax base essentially, then that is the reality.

Well the only passport I could apply for is China so I’m not doing that. Legal immigration by the book takes time. We don’t want to move overseas but did explore visas as we wanted to travel round Europe for more than 3 months at a time. Lots of changes to Golden visas over the last few years,.

OP please ignore the first replies of the privileged hard of thinking folk, the voting reflects what most of us think.

Moving house due to horrendous neighbours isn't as simple as lots of people on here seem to think, there's a reason it's considered one of the most stressful things to go through.

As always, connections, understanding of the area/language/culture and most importantly money helps.

For many countries, you need to be fluent in their language. And we British are not renowned for our linguistic skills.

I think that a lot of people underestimate how many people don't have any sort of dual nationality or right to live elsewhere. I have a job that is niche enough that if I was younger I suspect that I could get a visa sponsored to emigrate, but I'm over 40, so I think the number of places that would accept me would be very low. For the young and the rich there are of course options. It's a shame as if Reform do manage to get themselves elected I want an escape plan.

A lot of people won’t get in

But a fair few can

We could, H has a job with an international company, we could initially move temporarily and look to stay after that (he also would earn enough we would be entirely self funding)

if you are young, and think about choices, and train up or just take a chance, and pass the health checks ( these vary and are more frequently including neurodiversity), but if you can pass them, you are a low risk to be a strain on resources and can build a life their paying into that country’s tax system

and we all have dual-EU passports, we knew this would be another two-tier level of society and of course voted remain partly so that option would have been retained for all, alas, not so, but that doesn’t mean we and our children won’t use ours if we want to

but yes for many it’s not an option, for many it’s difficult, for some it’s easy

You're not wrong @Ballondor. I'd LOVE to go and work overseas again. But it's so bloody complicated that I honestly don't have the drive for it.

I was about to take off again (I've done it before) when covid hit so ended up not going. But I was about 6 months in sorting documentation, work permit, visa, house, tenants etc. It was so awful that I more or less decided I wouldn't be doing it again.

Pre-Brexit it was a lot easier. Now, it's a nightmare.

Couple of things here. An Ozz working visa is not a migrant visa. It's a visa for working holidays.

The emigration figures for the UK have recently shot up substantially, if you are talking about that re "wake up".

The statistics folk changed the method of calculating the data. They changed from random airport questionaries to checking for inactive NI accounts. That's why the numbers jumped up.

Lord Lucan moved abroad overnight, (allegedly)

I was going to say that went swimmingly for him but then realised I had him confuzzled with John Stonehouse and Reggie Perrin
Even with an EU passport in hand, it is not really that easy to up sticks and leave one country to move lock stock and barrel to another, even in the European block. 30 years ago, I foolishly turned down the opportunity I had to get myself an EU passport because of my father’s nationality, saying: “it’s fine, I’ve got a British passport, we’re already in the EU, I have no need of another EU passport”, and little imagining the UK would be so foolish as to leave the European Union. I am still being mocked by my husband for my decision, as post-Brexit, I am now too old to apply for that country’s passport, despite my ancestry. I’m furious with myself, but honestly, in my worst nightmares, I never dreamt of Farage.

There is something slightly amusing about people who move abroad because "there are too many foreigners in the UK".

It certainly tells you a lot without needing too many words.

I know a number of young doctors disillusioned with the NHS who have thought about leaving the country but not done so once they really looked into the practicalities. I do also know other HCPs who have gone elsewhere and are happy with their decisions but I doubt any of them would call it easy, and definitely not quick. There are lots of hoops to jump through and it can be quite costly. Obviously it's possible for plenty of people and it will be easier for those with sought after skills and who already have money, but I don't think it is as easy as many think.

Yup. If you are Chinese, then Dual citizenship is not an option.

Unless you are an Olympic snowboarder. Or possibly a football player.

Same as the Brit "ex-pats" in Spain who voted for Brexit.

"Ex-pat" is a term I strongly dislike. Call them what they are, migrants.

Tbf moving abroad was easy for me but I was 20 with nothing tying me down and dual nationality. I started a new life abroad taking only one suitcase of clothes with me.

The statistics don't lie.

Regardless of the anecdata spouted on this thread of people claiming everyone in their social circle has a second passport /second home in another country etc, the fact is only 2% of people hold a second passport and a portion of those will be people who themselves migrated to the UK and still hold their original citizenship/passport. Another chunk will be those holding both a UK and an Irish passport.

So quite clearly, no, for the vast vast majority of people (98%) it's not going to be straightforward to just move abroad.
Even if you do have things like a second passport of citizenship of another country, most people living here do have emotional ties to the UK that they aren't likely to just abandon such as family here, children, elderly parents.

To add to the anecdata? I know dozens who've talked about moving abroad. I know none who've ever actually gone through with it.

There's also a growing demographic of people who pissed off abroad to enjoy the low taxes yadda yadda, and then rock up after 25, 30 years in order to spend the twilight of their lives whining about how bad the UK is.

I think the people ranting about the country going to the dogs and those who have options to leave are not the same people.

Clearly, on this thread there are some people who move in privileged circles with people who do have options. They are not the same people as those painting roundabouts!

I don’t have children or own a home so it is easier for me to move to another country on a whim. Obviously not overnight as I still need to get a job/visa/plan it but certainly easier than if I had more commitments.

There are few countries that would accept the traffic artists if they had a choice.