Why is the NHS so generous with their employee leave

[Ionlywentandbloodydidit]

Maybe I’m just jealous plain and simple.
I work really hard in a patient facing private sector clinical role ( not transferable to NHS) , long hours, huge amounts of stress and responsibility just like NHS workers . Four weeks holiday , no sick pay , no time off for GP, dentist appointments etc . Not just me , this is completely normal in my industry.
The NHS is on its knees , I see it every day , I’m privately employed but am also registered with NHS as a performer ( it’s complicated ) .
I have several friends who work within the NHS as nurses, midwife’s etc . They are all mostly on eight weeks holiday per annum , regularly on leave for months at a time on full pay for various reasons such as two months for a miscarriage, six months for the death of a very elderly parent or a bad back or stress etc.
They will all receive a good pension .
I’m so intrigued ( and envious I admit ) at how the NHS can be so generous with tax payers money.
Im ashamed to say I’m beginning to resent my NHS friends some of whom are quite brazen with it, especially when I also see first hand how long waiting lists are for consultations / ops for my own patients / family etc .

IIRCthe number of sick days has gone up. But the number deaths in service has also gone up So I’d suspect that one of the things that is happening is that the workforce is sicker.

Personally, I suspect I’d have had fewer admissions and less time off sick if I hadn’t been attempting to do the job of several people as well as mine because the number of people the trust thinks the job needs and the number they actually need don’t match.

I work for the NHS and have worked for private company. Terms and conditions were pretty similar.
My annual leave, sick pay, maternity leave etc are identical to DH who works in the corporate sector.
The difference? When I come home I've done 15 hours work in 12. I'm haggard and stressed, panicking about have I forgotten to do something vital because I've not had time to think. Had 5-10 mins for lunch... Not had chance to nip to the loo.

To be honest, I'm more likely to need that holiday and sick leave than my husband!!

There are pros... But there are definitely cons too!!!

It's almost like illnesses spread, and people with illnesses go into NHS buildings.

I work long hours in the private sector in a job that is mentally demanding and I have to get everything right. Like many private sector companies it is generally not generous when it comes to salary, holidays, sick pay, maternity pay, pensions are defined contribution rather than defined benefit, only 3 days compassionate leave for death of an immediate family member etc etc. and there are very skinny margins in the sector I work in.

I don’t feel hard done by, I actually consider this to be the real world and the only way businesses today can truly function, otherwise it just doesn’t work.

If all industries operated like the public sector/ NHS we wouldn’t have food as available on our supermarket shelves as we do now, reliable running water, reliable energy and utilities and everything would be a lot more expensive. It’s the people going over and above everyday and working far more hours than they should to manage supply chains, utility supply and many other things that keep this country moving.

I’m not saying nurses etc. aren’t going above and beyond because of course they are but it’s the management and administration teams that let it down and allow the generous levels of holiday/ sick pay etc. that the NHS simply can’t afford. The reason private sector industries don’t do the same is that know they can’t afford it from both a financial and reliable service perspective.

So yes sometimes I am envious of friends who work in the public sector but I think in reality I know that those type of terms are not sustainable to actually keep our country moving.

I am also aware of other benefits I have such as free parking, no office politics, not as much red tape, working amongst colleagues with a high work ethic etc. These things are more important than you think.

I’m a midwife.

Last week I had to do a full day at work, go home, then get called back in in the night, deliver a dead baby, then go home and sleep for a few hours and then back in to do a full shift. That’s not out of the ordinary.

I’d like to this the benefits were not only earned, but necessary in attracting and retaining staff. There’s becoming less and less incentive to do this job.

"Everyone is pretty much always off"? Well that's bullshit for a start

Part time working is not being off, holidays are generally capped at 33 days for full time staff. Flexible working is still working, reasonable adjustments are a legal requirement. Maternity leave? Are you really grumbling about that?

"Never to be in" that's a joke right?

This post is an object lesson in how big business has managed to drive down terms & conditions across the board. By getting workers to resent & criticise other working people who get more than them - instead of looking at the private sector profiteering and exploitation that means they receive so little themselves.

I actually think there are plenty of people I’d be more jealous of. I worked at a university which was easy as hell- low performance expectations, loads of holiday, and a good (but not DB) pension scheme. It was a miserable place to work though, and attracted really poor performing and toxic people because behaviour standards were low.

i currently work for a PLC with an excellent DC pension (15% ER cont) 34 days holiday, bonus scheme, private healthcare, company car etc. people should be jealous of those workers if they want to be jealous of anyone

Most people get the Legal minimum 20 days plus bank holidays. Often having to work Bank holidays and then never getting the time back in lieu

Sorry if I missed this OP, but is there a reason you can’t join the NHS? I was in the third sector working with council employed tuped over on council terms and I was terribly jealous of the pension contributions! Especially as our pay was the same. I ended up moving to the CS, if you can’t beat them and all that!

Some are profiteering but others have really skinny margins so they can’t afford to do anything but have poorer terms for their workers.

Many private sector employees don’t complain about this either because they know that firstly asking for better terms and higher pay drives inflation that will just make everyone poorer in the long run and secondly that their jobs rely on the company surviving.

I have worked in private companies that the holiday goes up with service, isn't that similar to the NHS or do people get 30 odd days when they start an NHS job.

I’m sorry if you had a major life event, were ill because of it and didn’t get sick leave. It’s true I was off work for two months after my husband took his own life but I was totally unfit to work at that time.

This is a really good point, there are other benefits than just terms. The culture and environment are really important too and I don’t know but I imagine the culture at the NHS is not great so that has to be taken into account also.

It’s a fairly common difference between public and private sector T&Cs.

Public sector tend to be stronger on benefits that aren’t current salary. Private sector focuses on being competitive to market rates and salary/bonus rather than wider benefits.

However, it regularly frustrates me that this isn’t acknowledged when public sector pay is spoken about. Those wider benefits often aren’t referred to and have a significant value.

Usually its because the salary is often quite a bit lower in the public sector, so if they removed the perks that are cheaper for them to provide (like flexibility and annual leave), they would lose staff in droves to private sector roles.

This is the case in other public sector roles too. Take HMRC for example. It pays its senior staff as little as 50- 60% what they could command in the private sector, but they stay because its generally better hours, more annual leave, and an excellent pension.

It’s maximum 33 days annual leave after 10 years employment.
Bereavement leave is very short (days, even for the death of a child) so the 6 months you quote will be someone signed off sick by their GP.
You do get people taking the piss out of sick leave, dependents leave etc.
The younger staff are much less resilient and comparatively take a lot of sick leave. Culturally going off sick was not tolerated when I was a junior but it’s a different world now with little goodwill.
My husband works in the private sector and all his T&C are the same or better than my NHS ones. Plus he gets better pay, a bonus and his pension is more generous including the payment to me if he were to die.

I get you, OP. The NHS is badly managed and is also publicly funded. It seems a paradox that NHS workers get these very generous benefits when the public purse is paying for them and still get an overall poor service with no-one being available. Any private business operating this way would certainly go under very quickly.

Edited to add that private sector salaries have really stagnated and are not generally higher than the NHS any more.

Try working in the US if you really want to race to the bottom. They are not even expected to take any leave without sorting their own cover. It sounds like you would be happy there!

So, let me get this right; you are annoyed because NHS staff get a decent holiday allowance (which we earn for long service, new starters don’t get 8 weeks) and you believe we automatically get huge chunks of sick and compassionate leave? (We have to use annual leave hours for medical or dentist appointments, not sure why you think we get extra time off for those) I can’t decide if you’re genuinely misinformed or just rage-baiting.

Join a union and push your employers to treat you better, don’t try to drag NHS staff down to your shitty set up.

I’ve got 16 yeas service and get the higher leave allowance, it’s the one thing that keep me there. I’ve never used sick leave luckily not needed bereavement leave so I can’t comment but I do know that my 8 weeks leave is a massive perk and something I was discussing with my daughters yesterday

I'm glad someone has corrected the annual leave figures in the first post. Also OP isn't it a bit disingenuous to say you only get 4 weeks of leave, but the entitlement is 8 weeks in the NHS? You must get 28 days so 5.6 weeks (inc BHs) if the organisation is operating within employment legislation. And you've clearly included the BH entitlement in the NHS entitlement you've come up with.

Years ago, when pay was truly terrible in the NHS, many groups of staff had NO annual leave at all in the first year, none. Then the second year's leave was based on the percentage of the previous year worked. So I worked end of September - end of March with no annual leave just bank holidays, then the following year got just 10 days of annual leave (half of the years entitlement) - so 10 days of annual leave in 18 months. Eventually it was realised that this was no way to treat staff, so we all got 20 plus 8 BHs days from the start. Then as wages were so pitiful, it was agreed to increase AL instead as a 'free' way of improving conditions.

As for bereavement leave, I have worked in the NHS during the death of all my parents. I have had 1 week of bereavement leave for each, not 6 months. I have never come across anyone having 6 months of bereavement leave, it doesn't exist. Maybe people are being signed off by their GP?

I do agree about sickness levels however, many people push the system as far as possible. How to stop it though I have no idea.

Yeah this is bullshit

Half the things you listed are normal rights e.g.annual leave, maternity leave, bank Holidays, sick leave, part time workers. This is just to make your list look longer. The reality is There's no indication in your post NHS workers are off more than any other

I mean obviously no one is replying to your emails on a bank holiday. Obviously when workers are paid for 3 days a week they will only be in on those 3 days a week. It's hardly rocket science.

I have no problem getting a response to things, bearing in mind a lot of staff are clinical and so can't reply to your emails when their knee deep in surgery. What do you do in the NHS?

I thought around 5.5 weeks of holiday was the minimum you can have

I am compassionate but also realistic. I stand by the two months being too long.

Yes some people will feel it more acutely but others don’t see it as devastating. Not everyone is the same but two months is very long for a miscarriage. Geez I would have been at work for a very long time if I took two months each time. And to be clear I have experience with stillbirth and that’s a very different thing.