Why is the NHS so generous with their employee leave

[Ionlywentandbloodydidit]

Maybe I’m just jealous plain and simple.
I work really hard in a patient facing private sector clinical role ( not transferable to NHS) , long hours, huge amounts of stress and responsibility just like NHS workers . Four weeks holiday , no sick pay , no time off for GP, dentist appointments etc . Not just me , this is completely normal in my industry.
The NHS is on its knees , I see it every day , I’m privately employed but am also registered with NHS as a performer ( it’s complicated ) .
I have several friends who work within the NHS as nurses, midwife’s etc . They are all mostly on eight weeks holiday per annum , regularly on leave for months at a time on full pay for various reasons such as two months for a miscarriage, six months for the death of a very elderly parent or a bad back or stress etc.
They will all receive a good pension .
I’m so intrigued ( and envious I admit ) at how the NHS can be so generous with tax payers money.
Im ashamed to say I’m beginning to resent my NHS friends some of whom are quite brazen with it, especially when I also see first hand how long waiting lists are for consultations / ops for my own patients / family etc .

This is just nonsense. Public sector workers are on a wide range of salaries, some of them very well paid. You think that all of their wages are worked out to be subsidised by private sector workers? Really? So the ones on £100,000 a year have their taxes paid by private sector minimum wage earners?

I’m thinking if we’re going to look a it as us not paying tax, we should just stop paying it and spend that money, therefore boosting the economy.

It's not nonsense it is true. The size of their salary is irrelevant.

Did you do well at school?

Same in public sector.
Pay is generally lower than private. No bonuses no overtime.
So for me generous AL and decent pension is the only perks I get.

Yes, thank you. Also successful in a career spanning public and private sector.

With a few very limited exceptions, (the Land Registry being a notable one) the public sector does not make any money. Where do you think the money you are paid as a public sector worker which you then hand back as tax comes from? It started off as tax paid by a person/organisation in the private sector. It was put in your pay packet by the government and you gave it back again. You giving it back again didn't increase the total amount of tax available to pay for the state to run. This is how the economies of most countries work.

There are quite a few exceptions actually
For starters chunks of the public sector have pretty decent real estate investment portfolios that help fund them.
Then you have things like planners who are funded by developers paying application fees.
Museums that often have to prove they are self funding or they would close.

In the context of the total cost of the state those contributions are a raindrop in the sea and don't materially change the facts about who pays to run public services.

I work for the NHS. 15hrs unpaid overtime a week to keep my service afloat.
3 days sick (COVID)
Entitled to 3 days bereavement leave although there is an expectation that you are off between death and funeral for close relatives. I took 3 days when my mum died due to 25% vacancies in the service.

Either your friends are lying to you or to their employer. Id find a better class of friend.

If the point you're trying to make is that public sector employees are paid by the state...Well, duh.

Those employees pay income tax as well as VAT on their purchases and stamp duty and inheritance tax and fuel duty etc etc.

How do you feel about somebody who works for a private company that is contracted by the government? Are their wages and taxes paid by the tax payer as well? Are you suggesting that public sector should be paid tax-free to avoid the administrative burden of collection of their taxes?

For what it's worth, income tax only provides about a quarter of government income. The rest comes from other state revenue streams

I was thinking this-I know a few NHS who sadly lost parents and none were off for this long. I am not in any way criticising or judging people who did need to take longer.
As for miscarriage, aside from the emotional pain, some women have physical damage and problems (either that caused the miscarriage, or as a result of this). I'm not the only woman with personal experience of this. As a very fit person, I was physically in agony for months after and needed two operations, so was off work a considerable time. It was far worse than normal childbirth, and I physically couldn't do much, so for the other people who were off for 2 months, they might have been the same.
I actually think we should value good staff, in the NHS and everywhere, and try to make leave/family support etc better. People are always criticising those on benefits, but wouldn't it be better (and cheaper for the country!) if they were able to take a decent period sick then return to work rather than being forced out of a job due to illness?

I’d say there was every need. Comparing the work of an ED doctor to emptying bins was beyond crass. Your attitude is contemptible.

Those employees pay income tax as well as VAT on their purchases and stamp duty and inheritance tax and fuel duty etc etc.

And of they paid those taxes from money paid to them for work paid for by the public sector, none of it contributes additional money to the running of the state. Inheritance tax comes from an inherited, of course, so that does but it comes from the dead person not from the legatees.

How do you feel about somebody who works for a private company that is contracted by the government? Are their wages and taxes paid by the tax payer as well?

I've explained that one already, above. Yes. The source of the money is what counts, not who is doing the work. It counts for company too. If they make a profit on government paid work, they pay taxes on that profit, but those taxes don't add to the total money available to run the state and nor do the taxes on the dividend paid to their shareholders.

Are you suggesting that public sector should be paid tax-free to avoid the administrative burden of collection of their taxes?

It would make things too difficult to administer where people have other income, like interest on savings accounts and second jobs. It's probably cheaper overall to allow teachers and nurses the illusion that the tax on their payslip helps pay for the services they provide. It also gives them the same stake in voting for political parties based on their taxation plans.

For what it's worth, income tax only provides about a quarter of government income. The rest comes from other state revenue streams

Of course. Rates, VAT, corporation tax, capital gains tax ..... For all practical purposes in the context of spending £1,300,000,000 a year, none is provided by the public sector.

When I was in the public sector at one stage, the holiday was a normal allocation, anyway. No bonuses like the private sector, obviously.

No the attitude of the consultant towards the little people who pay their wages was what was contemptible.

Doctors can't be employed unless the people emptying bins and working on the tills in Tesco pay their taxes.

So whose job is actually more important? Would doctors work for free?

Thank you for all your comments and thoughts ( except for the abusive ones and the swearing , as soon as you resort to that you lose any credibility, if you can’t debate like an adult don’t join in, I feel bad for anyone posting on here that was subject to that )

Whilst I can’t say my views have done a complete 180 degree turn I do think many of your posts have made me come at it from a different angle . You made some really valid points and I feel have given me a more balanced view.
Thanks again to those who posted .

I missed three noughts off that figure, it costs £1,300,000,000,000 to run the state currently.

So whose job is actually more important?

Contempible. And incomprehensible.

There’s so much hate toward NHS employees here, it’s unbelievable. And it’s not just them—there’s also hate directed at the police, firefighters, paramedics, and anyone working in the public sector.

The irony is that the population on Mumsnet is mostly made up of very wealthy people who don’t work in the public sector and would never let their precious children work there either. In fact, the children of Mumsnet members rarely take on manual or working-class jobs at all. No wonder there’s such a shortage of workers in this country.

It’s hard not to laugh at the claim that NHS employees aren’t taxpayers. Then comes the argument that their salaries and the taxes they pay don’t count because the money comes from other taxpayers. The mental gymnastics are something else. And apparently, according to the Labour government, only those earning £50k or more qualify as taxpayers. You’d think plenty of NHS staff fall into that bracket, making them safe from the “non-taxpayer” label, but the online chatter insists otherwise.

the NHS is the biggest employer in the country, there are people who take the piss yes, but remember there are people who also do in the private sector, it just feels less because in percentage terms it’s a much smaller physical number. I would bet however if you compared it adjusted to size it would be similar.

I work for the NHS. Last time I took time off was 2022 when I had covid. I took one week off when my dad died. We don't all take the piss.

Why arent you taking your leave? It's there for your health as much as holidays.

No sorry I meant sick, I take my annual leave each year. I was just pointing out that we don’t all take “full advantage” of our sick leave policy

Not unreasonable at all. Heard of someone taking sick leave for a cosmetic treatment - because they work for NHS it’s full pay for up to 6 months!! I couldn’t believe it!

Ah! Good! I was going to use my best manager voice to tell you off! 🤣

I save lives for a living.

Rubbish collecting is important but I don't think it's a similar comparison 🙄 You try saving the life of someone when you're exhausted 😊