AIBU to think puberty blocker trial is child abuse?

[F1rstDoNoHarm]

Have we not learnt from Tavistock closure?

How do you know you can do the 'production' side if you are 'non binary'?

And 'production'? That's a whole thread in itself.

This is brilliant

https://x.com/i/status/2000214697631494511

.

Brilliant indeed.

The tests are on children FFS.

The known risks are:

• permanent sterility
• impaired sexual function as an adult
• a total lack of sexual function or desire as an adult
• brittle bones
• severe "brain fog"

It's also suspected they cause:

• impaired brain fuction
• lower IQ
• inhibiting the child from maturing mentally, so their peers grow up around then and they stay childish

Why on earth would you test like this on a child, especially when you could do studies on those who have already taken them, or on animals? (The concerns about brain fuction come partly from a study in sheep).

It's ghoulish and entirely unethical.

In the vast majority of cases of gender-distress in children, puberty is the cure. Why delay it?

With Conservatives and Reform actively against the puberty blocker trial, and Wes Streeting 'uncomfortable', I really hope it doesn't go ahead.

Unfortunately most people take what they hear at face value, and assume that this is a valid, well considered medical trial, when it's really not. Still, a thread like this one is showing that public perception is shifting, with more people being now aware of what is really going on behind the scenes, and that's encouraging.

I gather Rosie Duffield’s letter has more signatories now, but not sure how many are Labour. My female Conservative MP has signed it.
I have never voted Conservative in my life before, but Reform is a very real threat here, and I may even vote for her if she stands again. She’s an excellent constituency MP and a fairly moderate, centrist Tory.

I know this will sound controversial (maybe less so on mumsnet where there are some likeminded people) but nobody is born the wrong sex, you have a penis you are a male, a vagina and you’re a female. If a grown adult has their heart absolutely set on going through a life of surgery and hormones then fair enough but to encourage that in a child is sick.

I’ve been astounded by the level of ignorance around transgender surgery, I was speaking to someone recently who genuinely thought a vaginoplasty led to a fully functioning actual vagina. So so so so wrong. I’ll spare you the details but at best it leads to an open wound that doesn’t get infected and has to be regularly “dilated” to prevent it closing up.

And ftm surgery is a lot more complicated than mtf surgery I won’t bother going into it though.

The level of ignorance around this and the whole “be kind” bollocks is leading people who have no actual idea what cross sex surgery consists of encouraging impressionable children into a lifestyle of being a permanent medical patient. And anyone who points out the actual truth gets shouted down

Exactly

Well firstly you complete and publish the findings of a longitudinal observational study of children with gender dysphoria- current data indicates that about 80% resolve with puberty.

Then you do some proper animal studies - we really don't have animal data on blocking puberty then starting cross sex hormones - which will be available to children in this trial.

Then do some research to see if cross sex hormones for adults with gender dysphoria have any benefits - they certainly have side effects with a massively increased risk of blood clots in males taking oestrogen.

Then and only then think about whether it is ethical to stop puberty in children. Then design a decent trial - the design of this is so bad it almost looks deliberate- it's just a re run of the Tavistock starting out with a trial then declaring it so successful they should give blockers to most children, without actually publishing their results- which were negative with no benefit to mental health seen.

I can hardly believe people can treat this so casually.

Puberty blockers are only helpful to children with a condition that is causing premature puberty. Using them on physically healthy children suffering mental-health problems is child abuse.

There is evidence that you can't 'delay' puberty. It's a developmental window in which the body and brain both change dramatically. It is likely that blocking this in adolescence causes all kinds of problems including reducing IQ and affecting bone density and the healthy development of sex organs. Children who have already taken puberty blockers should be studied in depth before any trial on a new cohort takes place.

People are fucking ignorant and call us “ignorant” I was speaking to someone recently who thought a vaginoplasty resulted in a fully functional actual vagina. This is a person who scolds me on my “transphobia” 🙄

Id urge anyone who thinks that way to go check some vaginoplasty groups on Reddit, find out what “dilating” means. Then come back and scold us “transphobes” for not wanting to encourage impressionable kids to go down that route.

This

You are correct in that a pre schooler at age 3-4 that is undergoing previous puberty will indeed benefit from even 6-12 months of delayed puberty as their tiny bodies are not anywhere near ready. But to actively prevent puberty and delay and permanently prevent a typical biological process from ever happening patient is horrific. It results in tiny genitals that lack sexual function. Beans that never fully mature. It’s an awful thing to do

Wes Streeting will never be PM if he continues to back this trial. It'll haunt him for the rest of his career - absolute gift to the Tories. He needs to grow a backbone and bin the trial until the longitudinal observational study is finished & analysed, and insist on follow up of people previously given puberty blockers. You can do anonymised clinical research without individual consent if it's ethically justified, and it definitely is here - all you need is their unique identifiers and access to medical records.

Alternatively, if reddit is too much with all the graphic content, then a more academic description of what these gender reconstruction surgeries really mean, is available on Nick Wallis's blog:
What exactly is a neovagina, then? – Gender Blog

As so many others have said this is abuse.

We don't need to trial drugs that we already are harmful to treat a condition that doesn't exist in children who are unable to consent,

Parents who encourage this for their children should be investigated and prosecuted for abuse.

Fuck me, a 3400% increase overall and a 6000% increase in girls?!

OP, have no arguments at all. I find it so upsetting - those of you who think it's a good thing should watch the episode about Jazz Jennings where his doctor says they can't do a penile inversion because he never went through puberty and thus at age 17 he only has a small boy's penis. He therefore had to have a "vagina" made out of his colon.

Human beings can't change sex. It is cruel in the extreme to allow children to believe they can.

I think so many people trust the medical profession to act on clear scientific research. When you find out that they have been making it all up as they go along with no clear evidence of any benefit and no effective follow-up on outcomes it's quite mind-blowing.

@PencilsInSpaceI’ve not thought about that aspect before, do you have any reading revs on the Science of gametes not maturing / the body never actually going through puberty?

We have no idea what the long term consequences could be, this is all experimental and I find it baffling and terrifying that it has become so normalised by some, I just can’t get my head around experimenting on children.

They tend to stop them earlier for girls with precocious puberty now, usually 10, some girls continue til 11 if ND, but it would be very unusual to continue treatment beyond that and there would need to be a very good reason.

I assumed that would be the case. It's not unheard of for girls in normal health to start showing early signs of puberty at 8 or 9, is it? Given the nasty side effects and possibility of permanent health problems caused by taking puberty blockers, I would have thought clinicians would want children to take them for the shortest possible time.

8 is early but within a 'normal' range. You wouldn't give an 8 yo girl showing signs puberty blockers.