.... to be miffed my parents did equity release without discussing it with the rest of the family? (long)

[tittybangbang]

...... namely my brother, my sister and myself? We only found out after the deal was signed.

Mum (75)and dad (80) live in a good sized detached house in a lovely village. The house needed a bit doing to it and they didn't have savings to pay for new windows/a new kitchen/new cars, although as an ex civil servant my dad has a good index linked pension. So without discussing it with us they borrowed 100K against the house - and the interest on the loan will roll up until the house is sold. My dad made all the decisions and organised the whole thing. My mum just signed on the dotted line. She said to me that she didn't really understand what the equity release involved or the implications for the future - which I'm not surprised at as my dad has always treated her like a child in matters relating to money. She's never earned much and my dad's been in charge of all the household spending. He's said things to me in the past like 'your mother doesn't really understand money'. They didn't take independent advice on equity release - just talked to the solicitor who was working for the company who sold them the product. At one point they did consider down-sizing but my dad said he couldn't consider living in a semi-detached property because he likes his privacy.

I'm worried now that with falling house prices and increasing interest rates they'll end up within five years being saddled with a debt so huge that they simply won't be able to move, and then they'll be stuck in a big house they can't cope with (the garden is a quarter of an acre and they're worn out looking after it), or afford to heat, and has no downstairs toilet or bathroom (a big issue for my mum as she has problems with her joints). It's not such an issue while my dad is alive but if he dies before my mum (more of a likelyhood as he's had several small strokes in the last year) the household income will be halved overnight and she has no pension of her own. I dread the thought of my mum being marooned in that house, unable to get up the stairs to the loo, spending all her pension on getting people to come in to cut their 100 foot hedge and mow the massive lawn, and being too frightened to turn the heating on........ I'm going to have to work full time at some point to service our massive mortage. How am I going to be there for my mum when she needs me? I can bearly cope with my own house and my three children and dog, let alone maintaining my parents property and helping them when they're not able to cope with it themselves, or with living in a house which is not suitable for elderly, frail people but which they're stuck in because there's no money left in the property to buy anything else.

The other side of this that's really bothering me is that I've suddenly discovered I'd been unknowingly harbouring a sense of entitlement over my parents estate, and I feel really ashamed about it. I left home early (at 18) and haven't expected or had have much help from them in financial terms over my adult life. I've always felt that this was the way things ought to be - that you shouldn't expect to get money from your parents and should go out and shift for yourself. That's why I feel ashamed when I face up to how resentful I now feel since it's dawned on me that if things proceed the way they are now, I'm likely not to get a bean when they die - the entire estate will be sold off and the money will go to the bank to pay the extortionate interest on the loan they've taken out. I'm thinking - you don't have any right to anything, but then I think about how I feel about my own children and how gutted I'd feel about my entire estate being handed over to the bank on my death.

Maybe also I feel more upset about it now as I've had worries about money over the past six months - a health scare (that hasn't quite resolved) that has really made me worry for my future, plus a whole load of unavoidable expenses that have put a strain on the family budget. I should say - we're not poor, but we're like many families in the UK right now: big mortgage, big household bills and only one income.....

It's stirred up other thoughts as well that I feel really uncomfortable with. I can't help comparing my parents behavior with that of my inlaws, who were less well off and lived in a smaller house, but who saved for all their 4 children so they were all able to afford the deposit on a house when they left home. My parents never saved anything for me, and didn't encourage me to save either. I must be the only person I know who never even had a post office account as a child..........

Oh dear - does this all sound really moany? I think the worst of this whole thing is that it's given me negative feelings about my beloved parents - particularly my dad. I should be treasuring the time I have with them now not feeling resentful and hard done by.......

Sigh.

Any words of wisdom anyone?

You are not alone in lying awake at night wanting someone to come and wave a magic wand - I would live to suddenly have a windfall from an ancient unknown rich relative like in the Vicotrian novels or win the lottery (must buy a ticket) or premium bonds to have FO money to tell the boss to stuff it. But we are grown ups, you don't get owt for nowt, so deal with it! Your parents are NOT your cashpoint, and if they make mistakes they are THEIR mistakes. So your mother never put petrol in her car, well more fool her. You cannot get her to repplay and re-live her life -she could have chosen a differnt way - many others of her generation have, but she chose to let her DH do it all for her.

You do make some valid points, but I think you forget something. The issue of moving when you are that age should not be undertaken lightly.

If you have memory problems, this will only get worse when you get to a new place. Not only do you have to work out where to put everything, you have to learn where you now keep stuff, and remember where you put it. In their current home they have had years of remembering where things are.

Do you really expect people of your parents age to downsize? If you and your siblings are not usually involved with helping your parents (it does not sound like you are much, from your posts), they will not be counting on you to help you move. It is not easy to move away from a neighbourhood you have stayed in a long time. THe older you get the more reliant you get on the familiarity of the people around you, the ability to know and be known where you live, to stop for a chat, etc. All this will be lost by moving. They will also be leaving behind years of memories. They will possibly not be able to take all the furniture, and will have a really hard to chosing. But worse of all, the logistics. Chosing a new home, and packing up the old, sifting through years of paperwork, insurances, invoices, to throw away. packing down photos, clothes, kitchen equipment, etc. I have just moved. I know it is one helluva job.

My mum recently suggested they downsize and move into something smaller, as they dont need such a big home now that me and my family have moved back into town (and wont stay with them during holidays) as this would also free up some cash to put into our selfbuild. Guess what I said. "No way mum. I am NOT letting you go through the stresses of moving, and I do not want any money." Now I am nearby (or I will be, we live with them during the building process) I fully expect to help them maintain the property they have, even if it is big and rambling, and require maintenance. I want my parents to stay in the home they love.

If you are concerned about your parents and the big house, just make sure you are around tohlep them.

Well - it's true that I can't do anything about it.

Which must mean that I can just stop feeling sad and worried about it right now. Hooray!

[Weak smile. Taps fingers. Waits to feel better]

MrsGuyOfGisbourne: I am dealing with it. I am planning on going back to work full time, farming my children out to after school clubs and childminders, buying my clothes from charity shops, investigating pensions etc etc. Doesn't stop me wondering how I'll help my mum if she ends up alone and poor, or whether my brother, sister and I should sit down with my mum and dad and talk about their options before the debt grows to such an extent that they are locked into staying in the house until they die.

"If you and your siblings are not usually involved with helping your parents (it does not sound like you are much, from your posts), they will not be counting on you to help you move. It is not easy to move away from a neighbourhood you have stayed in a long time."

Actually all three of us visit our parents two or three times a week. I talk to my mum every day.

If you'd read my posts you would have seen that one of my greatest concerns is my parents being able to stay in the village they currently live in. If they leave it too long then HAVE to downsize, if they are simply unable to stay in their current property because of infirmity/lack of income then they will be forced to move out the village and go somewhere cheaper.

I haven't read all the responses but I',m shocked at how harsh some people have been. Personally I think equity release schemes are totally diastrous, particuarly in the present climate of higher interest rates and falling house prices, as rightly you point out. I would be very surprised if a group family discussion hadn't been able to produce an outcoome which would have been better for everyone, including your parents.

I speak as someone who grew up in a very wealthy family but whose father died suddenly leaving huge (and unexpected) debts and no pension or insurance of any kind. Yours truly had to sacrifice pretty much everything to pay it all off and I now support my mother. So, I am not one to have a lot of sympathy for people who expect a large inheritance but nonetheless, I would be hurt if my parents didn't include me insuch a discussion.

I don't think you are being unreasonable AT all. I would have been pissed off too, on many levels. Firstly, unless your parents are now in the position to still live comfortable, swan off around the world having the time of their lives doing something they have always dreamed of, then the equity release sounds like a fecking waste of time. New kitchen, new windows, new Car??? WTF good is that going to do anyone, apart from the bank who will cash in not only on the sale of the house when the poor sods pass on, cash in on the interest, will cash in on the improvements made with your parents money! Am I the only one who gets this???? To be blunt, your parents dont sound in the best of health, so god forbid they need to go into residential care, there is no equity in the house to go private so will be at the mercy of NHS.

I also dont think you should be beating yourself up about them not leaving you an inheritance either. Im bound to get flamed for that, i don't care. My parents live in council housing, so do my partners, so, all we will inherit will be some dodgy ornaments and a nightmare clearing the houses. Do i feel resentful of this, when otherwise my parents (and his) have been loving, caring and generous all their lives. Well, despite myself yes i do. IF they had invested in property at the time (they probably could have afforded by shit with money and that was just what they did) they would have paid their mortgage off years and YEARS ago. Would have enjoyed some return im sure AND had substantial equity to leave to me, their spoilt selfish only child. I don't resent them at all, of course i don't. However i am determined that when i leave this planet i am going to be leaving something behind to provide a safety blanket or nest egg for my girls. I do feel jealous and resentful when i see people inherit - of course i shouldnt do, but tis human nature. So yes, i think that the OP is well within her rights to resent the decision her father made, its a lousy financial decision, based on what? Material gain - if they were going on safari, cruise after cruise, finding themselves in shangrila then i might feel differently, but a new kitchen and new car?? OMG!

I know our parents make sacrifice after sacrifice for us, their children, but thats how it goes, isn't it???

I am making every provision for my DCs while they are young-however once they are adult I don't feel any need to leave them with a nest egg.
I would much rather that my mother had her trip to New Zealand that save up the money so that I can eventually go to New Zealand with it!
There would be outrage on this thread if parents were interfering and giving unwanted financial advice to you and DP and yet, just because they are elderly,people seem to think they have a right be consulted. If OP parents had asked her advice that would be a different matter but they didn't.
It is not a good idea to expect anything in the way of inheritance. If they have to go into a nursing home the money will go very quickly. My FIL's nursing home fees very quickly ate up his savings and the money from the sale of his house. He was left with the amount the government lets you keep.He was upset not to be able to leave it but DH and I are old enough to stand on our own feet.

I couldn't bear to read your OP as it was so long...

so on the strength of your title.... its your parents decision, they have taken it, its got nothing to do with you.

'New kitchen, new windows, new Car??? WTF good is that going to do anyone, apart from the bank who will cash in not only on the sale of the house when the poor sods pass on, cash in on the interest, will cash in on the improvements made with your parents money! Am I the only one who gets this???? To be blunt, your parents dont sound in the best of health, so god forbid they need to go into residential care, there is no equity in the house to go private so will be at the mercy of NHS.'

Maybe they're enjoying it, LEM. Maybe they like having those new things, maybe it brings them a little joy and brightens their daily lives.

I cannot believe anyone - and by that I include the OP because she sounds a decent sort - would begrudge two decent people in their later years a little extra joy in their lives, and if they're using their own assets to get that for themselves that it's nothing short of actually quite downright nasty to begrudge them that.

I feel really sorry for anyone who resents others just because they get lucky and inherit. What a bitter way to go through life and what a waste of energy.

Good for them! Hope they realise how lucky they are and enjoy it, I know I would!

I won't get anything from my f, he'll die first and his third wife will make sure everything they have is devolved onto her four grand daughters!

Irritating but I think I only feel a bit resentful because he was such a crap parent.

Haven't read whole thread so sorry if this is irrelevant now, but I think you are BU.

As a family we have encouraged our parents to spend what they have left on whatever they wish to spend it on.

We joke that there will be no will, just a slide show of all the amazing places they have visited with the 'inheritance'.

Honestly, mentally totting up your share of their assets when your parents are still alive is really the pits.

the ILs will leave their house to their slovenly son who would make Kim and Aggie run screaming.

their house, their business.

my mother will spend every cent they've got before she kicks it - she's well on the way. they got a new kitchen and a new bathroom.

for no damn good reason at all! they'd just been living in that house for 36 years and decided since they were going to stay, they were going to do it up smartly for no other reason than looks.

how selfish is that?

they even blew money hiring a decorator to come in and tart the place up.

how could they spend our inheritance like that!?

they drive new cars, too, paid for in cash.

they travel all the time, eat out in restaurants, even go to dances and balls.

i can't believe it!

I think yabu to be honest. and you need to get over that sense of entitlement thing (which I suspect is bigger than your worry about your parents not being able to move). Your inlaws saved for their children, that doesn't mean people should do that.

I think inheritance causes more rows and resentment than it's worth actually. how will you feel if your children start asking things like this?

Wanted to add: re the 'people work hard for their money - they have a right to spend it any way they want' argument, there's a whole generation of people who've got rich on property - NOT through hard work, but by the sheer good fortune of in living in a time when property prices have gone up beyond what anyone imagined they ever would.

In all situations like this there will be losers as well as winners. The losers are the next generation who are impoverished by disproportionately high property prices. How can it be right for one generation to merrily spend the profits made on housing while their children struggle to cope financially with the inevitable fallout of gross inflation in the property market.

I don't include myself as one of the 'impoverished' generation - DH and I managed to buy a house we can just about afford 9 years ago but my children won't be so lucky.

Well, I am one of the impoverished generation.

We'll never own a place of our own.

Others got rich on property by luck.

So what?

Good for them. That's life. That's how it shakes out sometimes.

Ridiculous to expect them to feel guilt about a situation that was out of their control, or feel beholden to anyone for it.

tittybangbang - No, people don't always work for their money, but how does that make the inheritance principle fair? it makes it even less fair imo (because remember, some people never inherit anything)

I think without reading the whole thread, you are being unfair on the OP. She has already admitted to feeling guilty about her ambivalent feeling towards the supposed inheritence, but her real concern was in her last post: "Doesn't stop me wondering how I'll help my mum if she ends up alone and poor, or whether my brother, sister and I should sit down with my mum and dad and talk about their options before the debt grows to such an extent that they are locked into staying in the house until they die."

I speak as someone who is indeed encouraging my mum and dad to spend any and all money now (they are proud "SKINS": Spending The KIds Inhertiance Now) and although their circumstances have changed in the last year following a bad accident that my Mum had (on a cycling holiday in India) which means that a lrge part of thier funds may indeed end up being spent on nursing care if my mum goes on to develop Alzheimhers (and my dad also currently gets the higher rate attendance allowance) - and I may also end up having to support them financially myslef, I am happy to do so.

It is probable that my brother and I will end up sharing a large inheritance as a result of the equity in the hosue - but I am not assuming I iwll do so and will be quite happy if it is all used up on thier care in the end.

'How can it be right for one generation to merrily spend the profits made on housing while their children struggle to cope financially with the inevitable fallout of gross inflation in the property market.'

I don't see how it's right to expect others who got lucky to be beholden to anyone because of their good fortune.

expat, thats the thing though, i DO resent it, but just a little bit You do talk lots of sense though.

I mean, gees. Maybe they don't like to travel. Maybe they prefer pottering around the house. So why not decorate it how they like and enjoy living there?

I think there worst thing to come out of this present generation is this inflated sense of entitlement - inheritance, benefits to provide a comfortable lifestyle for as long as you need, free education and this and that.

Where do folks get this idea that the world owes them a living, IYSWIM?

Sorry, OP! I know that's way off the topic.

'Material gain - if they were going on safari, cruise after cruise, finding themselves in shangrila then i might feel differently, but a new kitchen and new car?? OMG! ' Well good on them if they are getting enjoyment out of those things, maybe they have done without luxuries till now? The things listed may also be things that people spend inheritence on anyway and that some people go to work daily for. Alot of purchases are 'a waste'.

That is why i am never jealous of people who inherit or will inherit or made money on the house boom, because I am happy with my lot (which isn't much materially but alot in other ways). In fact i feel sorry for them if they are so badly consumed by it, they never seem happy. A relative of mine is planning to send her kids to private school when her Dad dies and often speaks of being able to pay things of later when her money comes. I find it abit distastful somehow while he is still here.

so what happens if the housing market crashes and the value of the house is less than the loan plus interest when your parents are both dead?

Isn't the estate then liable for the debt? so in other words, wouldn't the op and her siblings be liable to repay this debt? (assuming they are the beneficiaries of the estate).

Because if so then I would be mightily pissed off if my parents took out a debt without telling me, which I might have to repay.

Op i think that if you'd worded the title "ibu to be concerned about the financial decisions my parents have made" and hadn't made mention of an inheritence the responses would have been differet.

OMG, jellybean, really? Your own kinswoman actually says those things to you out loud? How shocking.

My feelings would be so hurt if I found out my children thought of me in such terms!

I think of my own father, and how his health isn't what it was now he's 72, and I'm so upset by the thought that he'll move on from this world sooner rather than later and we won't have our Papa here with us.

I'm so glad he is enjoying himself.

The trouble is that because lots of people are home owners they expect that they will have a good sum of inheritance. The fact is that its their choice. I can understand some of your reasons to be irritated though.
My parents have approx £275k in the bank from down sizing and both have state and private and public sector pensions, so plenty to finance a good standard of living even without savings. They paid workmen for me (£500), to do work on a house we rent out, which we expected to pay back. They are always saying you'll be well of when we go, but hopefully by then we will be set up anyway. I am ashamed to say that a huge part of me wishes they would let us off for the money we owe instead. At the moment I'm on maternity leave on MA and DH has a moderate salary, but that would help me far more iyswim.
From the POV of selling the house or one being left alone I can understand your fears. There was a programme about it not long ago that the things you mentioned happened to.
So I think your concerns are not unreasonble.
To expect them to discuss it with you is unreasonable - they are adults and you can't expect inheritance.