Have I committed fraud?

[Boxedin2431]

I am a single mum to three.

I have a UC review and bank statements are due.
I have three bank accounts and two I have not declared.
The two bank accounts I have not declared get child maintenance paid in from my children’s dads, respectively.
I have not had any other income apart from the maintenance and some help from my dad sometimes.
i transfer money between all three.
Two bank accounts are in my birth name, the third is in my middle name.

Am I in trouble when I declare them?

I only have UC, child benefit into the one I have declared.
i have child maintenance into one bank account and another child maintenance into the other bank account.

Shall I include 6 month statement for all three?

There are loads of ways to milk the system for all its worth, but that doesn't mean the OP is doing anything wrong other than not having disclosed the accounts. I've not dealt with DWP but have with HRMC a lot and have found that if errors have been made that don't have any impact they just correct the record and move on.

Just write and say that you hadn't declared these bank accounts because all they are used for is for money coming in for child maintenance. And you had been told that child maintenance is disregarded.

But now a friend has told you that you have to declare all your bank accounts, and has pointed out that you could be getting thousands and thousands in CM, so you apologise for your mistake and here are the details of the accounts.~

If you are proactive about telling them, I doubt that anything awful will happen!

Do you know how many get anything near £20k?

It's disregarded because most people get diddly squat and, as the Child Support saga in the nineties showed, trying to (a) force people to claim it and (b) involving it in benefits was incredibly cruel and messy.

You need to read the new act again then. Because they absolutely do know. I also suggest you look up the “connect” computer/AI system. It is an AI enhanced data cross referencing system, that takes away the need for physical “staff” to have to do any monitoring, that is the whole point of it. It knows everything about everyone of us that exists electronically. It’s been in development for years, but for it to be used to its full potential legally then the F.E.A.R act had to be passed, which happened on 5th of December.
So yes, you will have more “educate yourself” from me. The info is all publicly available.
Then when you have actually read it, ask yourself, why doesnt hardly anyone on this thread seem to know about such a massively intrusive bill, that affects every person in the country. Why wasn’t it mentioned on the news or mainstream media last week? It’s almost like they wanted it go quietly under the radar…..

Goodness - the level of pearl clutching and judgy comments in this thread.

OP - you've not gained financial benefit and it doesn't impact your entitlement. The child maintenance and gifts are disregarded anyway - just declare all bank accounts.

Ignore the nosey posters - it's no one else's business why you choose to have 3 accounts and manage them however you see fit. So much envy and rage out there and herd mentality whenever anyone asks about benefits rules, others try to put them down. It's not acceptable and is a reflection of the mean spirited society we currently live in, sadly.

Don’t listen to all the nonsense people are saying aboit all this awful consequences. Just update your details. It’s not fraud as none of the money in any of the accounts will affect your claim. Obviously you need to give details of all accounts - they will see the other accounts exist as you transfer to/from main account. Friend of mine had similar recently. They said oh you should have declared that. She said sorry and that was that. Like you the money did not affect her claim so there were no consequences

Declare all your financial incomings and all bank accounts. If your dad is contributing to be able to afford some shopping or activity for a child fair enough if he’s sending you £1000 a month and you still allowed to claim tax payers money that to me sounds a little wrong but let DWP decide. Workers are unable to hide paid income via HMRC so why do you think because your income is unearned you should be allowed to hide it?

You are absolutely allowed money gifts from family. It’s disregarded in the same way maintenance is. No need to hide it

You've missed my point more than once. I'll leave you to your conviction that the DWP has in-depth knowledge of the bank accounts of every claimant and is biding its time waiting to see if each person declares all bank accounts before swooping in and pouncing. And to your belief that you have superior knowledge about a well publicised piece of legislation that you can use as a "gotcha" to the less intelligent than you and an opportunity to "educate" those poor dim posters.

Yes, I do know people getting large sums of child maintenance, which are disregarded, and claiming benefits and I also know another widowed parent who was not able to claim because the life insurance was just above the threshold and they are skimping and saving as trying to keep some sort of a financial buffer in case they needed it but unable to claim anything . There is no disregard for widowed parents receiving life insurance and they will not be able to claim child maintenance from a deceased partner, I was just trying to highlight how someone could be getting much more that the allowed savings allowance a year in child maintenance and still be claiming whereas a widowed parent would not be able to claim if a life insurance payment was just over the savings allowance. A widowed parent would have to wait until the life insurance money was depleted and then claim but not have the financial help of child maintenance so struggle further.

Having the correct information is not “superior knowledge”, it’s education. Try it some time

@Holidaytimeyay I take your point about life insurance though it's often linked to a mortgage - or at least it was way back when we had life insurance.

A history of why we're where we are today after a moralists campaign for children to pay their way.

The Child Support Act 1991 still casts a shadow in Whitehall. The proposal was intended to relieve child poverty by making 'feckless fathers' contribute to their children's upbringing. Originally there was intended to be a disregard so that Mothers saw some benefit from the cash.

The whole thing was then subverted by the Treasury so that benefits would be reduced £/£ for maintenance; Mothers saw nothing. They were obliged to name their children's Father so he could be pursued. An agency, the Child Support Agency, was set up to do the pursuing, collect the cash, and pass it on to the DHSS.

The formula used to convert earnings to maintenance was impenetrable and many fathers were assessed for sums they could not afford. It also brought misery to stable second relationships was one family was perceived as being robbed for the benefit of the other.

The CSA was a byword for chaos an inefficiency. It's CEO, a competent Civil Servant whose back story included the single parent's charity Gingerbread was kebbabed on live TV over the mess.

The chaos continued until around 2006 when a pragmatic decision was made for the state to step back, allow Mothers and Fathers to sort their own arrangements and for cash passing to be disregarded.

Those involved both in Westminster and Whitehall would never allow anything similar to see daylight again.

Except they're now all retired and or dead and it's just about time for some fresh cheeked politico to say 'how about making fathers pay and reduce the charge on the exchequer for Children'.....

If your only income is from benefits and employment where you are under PAYE for tax purposes, you don't need to. DWP already know about your benefits and HMRC share payroll information with DWP via the real-time information (RTI) system.

Pre RTI, which was also pre-UC, working claimants had to produce payslips to evidence earnings. The move to RTI effectively enabled UC, it really wouldn't have been feasible before.

Self-employed claimants have to report their earnings (after costs) every month.

You don't need to report income from lodgers either, that's disregarded.

This is incorrect. Money received from family members is not counted as income unless it’s paid for doing a job or an inheritance. Where are you getting this from?

Child Maintenance is disregarded. Not sure on the gifts from your dad. Are they substantial?

Income, whether earned as wages/salary etc, or unearned such as income replacement benefits (JSA/ESA etc) or pensions only count in UC where the 2013 Regs, mostly regs set out in Chapters 2 and 3 say they do.

Gifts from parents are not mentioned.

Anything that's not income is capital.

How did you prove that was your name to get the account. Banks usually carry out stringent checks due to money laundering.

You won't get in trouble, I forgot to declare premium bonds for years, but it was under the savings amount so it was absolutely fine. Don't stress

Yes you are defrauding the system and you have done it knowingly. It's a criminal act and so I hope you are in trouble.

Repay what? She’s not been overpaid? She’s just not declared bank accounts that have money in that makes no difference to her benefits.
OP - just tell them you forgot and declare them.

How? What crime has she committed? She has not declared accounts that never have much money in, and money that does not have to be declared anyway.

It has been explained on her multiple times that she will be fine. She just needs to update statements from the other accounts. Even someone who works for the DWP has posted and said as much.

May be go to citizens advice for some support with this

I’ve just had mine done, I had to declare all 4 bank accounts I have, for the past 4 months, got to be full months, and I get child maintenance and that was okay, they basically are making sure people don’t have savings that they haven’t declared over 6k and also your not earning from selling on Vinted etc as they now look at that as a income too. Just be honest with them and upload your statements. If there is nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about. My partner owed me 8,500 before I even had uc and he’s been paying me back £250 a week and I explained that and they said it was fine so I really wouldn’t worry xx

Most sensible response on this thread 👏

Nice to see all the benefits badgers are out in force and don’t even know what they’re talking about. What a surprise.