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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

School absence rules are super powering the spread of flu

259 replies

Pavementworrier · 09/12/2025 19:17

And people will die unnecessarily as a result and it's really annoying

Why the hell can't there be a rule that kids with flu or suspected flu (at least during peak flu season) don't have absences counted??

OP posts:
Accaron · 11/12/2025 12:46

Celestialmoods · 11/12/2025 12:25

I don’t know, like I said, I don’t like attendance awards. But it is a fact that poor attendance reduces successful educational outcomes, and that means there is pressure from the top on schools to improve attendance rates. Children are used because it’s about them, and it is the only thing that might make parents think twice when deciding to book a cheap holiday or have a lazy day off.

Or they could stop trying to blame kids/ parents and pretending that absences are because they don’t bother to send them - which is vanishingly rare - or pretending that sick children should be in school, and instead address the systemic structural problems with the design of the state school system which underly over 90% of recorded absences and make it impossible for tens thousands of children to attend sustainably, causing them deliberate and completely avoidable, foreseeable harm and violating their legal right to access education.

Accaron · 11/12/2025 12:50

If we accept that poor attendance reduces educational outcomes then how is this well-documented national scandal allowed to continue, and how will it be solved by encouraging/ coercing/ threatening/ shaming children with contagious viruses/ infections to attend school regardless and therefore exponentially raise the number of other children/ staff who are sick as well?

Oklowkay · 11/12/2025 13:17

Celestialmoods · 11/12/2025 12:25

I don’t know, like I said, I don’t like attendance awards. But it is a fact that poor attendance reduces successful educational outcomes, and that means there is pressure from the top on schools to improve attendance rates. Children are used because it’s about them, and it is the only thing that might make parents think twice when deciding to book a cheap holiday or have a lazy day off.

It isn't about them - especially at primary school they have zero agency about whether they go to school or not. So to deliberately cause them distress to manipulate their parent? Unjustifiable.

Hufflebuffs · 11/12/2025 14:12

OhMaria2 · 11/12/2025 09:30

Because schools cry about attendance whilst begging parents to be sensible when their child is unwell. Resulting in parents sending in children before they're fully better,and spreading germs to all and sundry. This makes behaviour really great as you can imagine.
Another reason I'm glad not to teach anymore, being ill all of the time.

Ps its us in the infants cooking it all up. Sucking toys, picking noses, sharing dribbly play dough and sucking unifix cubes, then walking to assembly and lunch sliding our hands along the wall. Nice.
Inset days used to be at least half about sorting things out and having a bit of a scrub of the toys. Now its for listening to the head go on and on for a whole day.

But those rules are imposed inn the schools. They will be given attendance as a measure. So not the school’s fault.

And you don’t think these conversations happen in every workplace? “Ugh Jackie’s come in and is coughing and spluttering. Brilliant, now we’ll all get ill” versus “Jackie is off again and she’s only got a cold. Now we’re short staffed. She’s such a skiver”. People can’t win.

I work in infants, and sadly we just have to accept it as part of the job. I get the flu jab, and my hands are sometimes sore from all the handwashing but what can you do?

Celestialmoods · 11/12/2025 15:45

@Accaron
Or they could stop trying to blame kids/ parents and pretending that absences are because they don’t bother to send them - which is vanishingly rare -

It is not vanishingly rare at all. It is very common for parents to keep healthy children off school for various reasons. That’s the problem. It is their job fault of parents.

Most attendance awards don’t expect 100% attendance anyway, so there is already leeway for normal illness.

FlyingCatGirl · 11/12/2025 16:35

Celestialmoods · 11/12/2025 07:00

IME, it’s not the attendance rules that are the problem at the moment. Parents are sending their sick children into school because they still have more to organise before the holidays and want their children out of the way, or because they don’t want to miss out on the Christmas activities or because they don’t want to take time off work. It’s disgusting. Parents can be vey selfish when it comes to sending in sick children. I don’t believe it has anything to do with attendance rules, because there are plenty of children that are never kept off no matter how much they’re coughing over everyone else.

Edited

I saw the flip side to the coin yesterday, on my dinner hour I was walking past a shopping centre and I was surprised to see so many kids about in the shops and cafes. The local schools were very much open. I even checked the date on my watch wondering if they'd broke up for Christmas already but that wasn't the case. What were all these kids doing there, you wonder whether they have been kept off school for being unwell yet they've been taken out shopping and for dinner in a cafe! There's a lot of elderly people in the cafes on a weekday too so not a place to be taking a sick kid.

FlyingCatGirl · 11/12/2025 16:39

On the topic of whether flu can be milder, I've been poorly for a week and a half, it's felt like more than a cold, the aches and the neck pain, night sweats, fatigue. It's been an annoying, tiring and slow moving virus. I've had flu years ago and knew how bad it can be but what I've had and still recovering from now could certainly be a milder version!

Rickmcsheasbeard · 11/12/2025 18:14

At some point, even if it’s just to address the increased cost of teacher illness which has unsurprisingly risen in line with pupil illness, a more sensible and sustainable approach above enforced illness may happen. Right now, kids and teachers are just told to wash their hands as though that’s going to go far with a plethora of airborne viruses in unventilated classrooms. If someone knowingly visited me whilst still contagious with covid or flu etc, I’d think they were despicable. It is despicable that we do that in schools.

pssssst · 11/12/2025 19:38

FlyingCatGirl · 11/12/2025 16:35

I saw the flip side to the coin yesterday, on my dinner hour I was walking past a shopping centre and I was surprised to see so many kids about in the shops and cafes. The local schools were very much open. I even checked the date on my watch wondering if they'd broke up for Christmas already but that wasn't the case. What were all these kids doing there, you wonder whether they have been kept off school for being unwell yet they've been taken out shopping and for dinner in a cafe! There's a lot of elderly people in the cafes on a weekday too so not a place to be taking a sick kid.

I've seen lots of kids in supermarkets and shops this week too. Why? Not even private schools have closed yet.

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 11/12/2025 19:47

pssssst · 11/12/2025 19:38

I've seen lots of kids in supermarkets and shops this week too. Why? Not even private schools have closed yet.

Increasing numbers of children being home educated? We were out and about with DD for much of yesterday.

FlyingCatGirl · 11/12/2025 19:53

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 11/12/2025 19:47

Increasing numbers of children being home educated? We were out and about with DD for much of yesterday.

No, it's not like what I saw yesterday all the time, you would honesty have thought it was a Saturday or a school holiday. Ii would hope home educators actually educate their kids during the week too!

FlyingCatGirl · 11/12/2025 19:56

pssssst · 11/12/2025 19:38

I've seen lots of kids in supermarkets and shops this week too. Why? Not even private schools have closed yet.

I am wondering if some parents are willing to sacrifice their kids education and pay fines to pull kids out of school now for fear of the kids bringing illness into the house and ruining Xmas but taking them to busy shopping centres and cafes is ridiculous if they are panicking about them picking up bugs and viruses.

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 11/12/2025 19:57

FlyingCatGirl · 11/12/2025 19:53

No, it's not like what I saw yesterday all the time, you would honesty have thought it was a Saturday or a school holiday. Ii would hope home educators actually educate their kids during the week too!

The nice thing about home education is that it doesn't have to happen between the hours of 9am - 3pm, so children could absolutely be out and about in the middle of the day and still receiving a full time education 🙂

FlyingCatGirl · 11/12/2025 20:09

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 11/12/2025 19:57

The nice thing about home education is that it doesn't have to happen between the hours of 9am - 3pm, so children could absolutely be out and about in the middle of the day and still receiving a full time education 🙂

I'm not sure I believe the young kids will diligently sit and concentrate on education from say 3pm to 7pm. I also imagine a lot of kids would struggle without routine.

AdjustingVideoFrameRate · 11/12/2025 20:22

Franjipanl8r · 11/12/2025 04:13

There isn’t enough fresh air in schools. Windows are tight shut in winter and not enough stale air is refreshed. This speeds up the spread and transmission of viruses massively.

Agree, and there’s not enough ventilation anywhere really. Offices, hotels, trains, public buildings, hospitals, surgeries, restaurants - the number of places which have sealed windows or hard to open windows is awful. We need fresh air and re-freshed air. I thought this would all change after Covid but sadly not.

FightNight · 11/12/2025 20:50

FlyingCatGirl · 11/12/2025 20:09

I'm not sure I believe the young kids will diligently sit and concentrate on education from say 3pm to 7pm. I also imagine a lot of kids would struggle without routine.

So the question becomes “do children have to be sat quietly inside to be learning”

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 11/12/2025 21:43

FlyingCatGirl · 11/12/2025 20:09

I'm not sure I believe the young kids will diligently sit and concentrate on education from say 3pm to 7pm. I also imagine a lot of kids would struggle without routine.

A lot of children struggle with routine, and struggle to sit and concentrate on education between 9 and 3. There's nothing magical about those hours.

DD will often wake up early and do a couple of hours 7am - 9am, then we'll be out in the day either at clubs and activities or just everyday life. She's also content working of an evening, and learning happens at weekends too ☺️

Not to mention, a child doesn't have to be sitting still at a desk to be learning.

InlandTaipan · 11/12/2025 21:58

FightNight · 11/12/2025 20:50

So the question becomes “do children have to be sat quietly inside to be learning”

Absolutely not. I taught mine to read by climbing trees and they picked up fractions whilst fucking about with a football. And Minecraft covered the rest.

DontGoJasonWaterfalls · 11/12/2025 21:59

InlandTaipan · 11/12/2025 21:58

Absolutely not. I taught mine to read by climbing trees and they picked up fractions whilst fucking about with a football. And Minecraft covered the rest.

🙄

SleepingStandingUp · 11/12/2025 21:59

Celestialmoods · 11/12/2025 12:25

I don’t know, like I said, I don’t like attendance awards. But it is a fact that poor attendance reduces successful educational outcomes, and that means there is pressure from the top on schools to improve attendance rates. Children are used because it’s about them, and it is the only thing that might make parents think twice when deciding to book a cheap holiday or have a lazy day off.

if I was inclined to book a term time holiday to save £££, I don't think a certificate and a bag of haribo would sway me to not to do it. and if DC cried and said but I want my prize, it would be cheaper to buy it than go on holiday in August.

if I often decided it took less effort to keep the kids home than get them to school (ha!!) again I don't believe a card and some sweets would make me less lazy.

the kids who are eager to please and impress the teacher and unlikely to be the school refuses.

I'd love to see the results of a study on these prizes and actual attendance

Ghht · 11/12/2025 22:07

soupyspoon · 10/12/2025 07:57

Its true you can be up and about with flu but then thats just like having a cold or sniffle which most people just work through, kids or adults. My OH was ill yesterday but today he's fine, he might have a flu virus, or he might not, what are people supposed to do, stay at home forever?

No, you’re mistaking that with a cold. I had the flu a few winters ago and it’s not something I’ve forgotten. It was Christmas Day and I was unable to get off the sofa, couldn’t eat Christmas dinner, couldn’t talk to anyone. I was haggard as a healthy individual in their mid 20s!!

RealOliveTraybake · 11/12/2025 22:09

BorgQueen · 09/12/2025 19:29

Unfortunately the vaccine this year is only 30% effective, which is rubbish.
Add to this classrooms with no ventilation and it’s germ soup.
There ought to be hepa air purifiers in every class without an opening window.
I’m sure my Grandson’s school is faring better because they actually open windows plus the younger kids can go outside in bad weather because of covered areas.

Unless every person is breathing into it, this won't make any difference at all.

Accaron · 11/12/2025 22:13

Celestialmoods · 11/12/2025 15:45

@Accaron
Or they could stop trying to blame kids/ parents and pretending that absences are because they don’t bother to send them - which is vanishingly rare -

It is not vanishingly rare at all. It is very common for parents to keep healthy children off school for various reasons. That’s the problem. It is their job fault of parents.

Most attendance awards don’t expect 100% attendance anyway, so there is already leeway for normal illness.

Yes, it is if you look at the statistics in the statistically validated academic research. Over 90% of cases of children with poor attendance records or children who end up out of school entirely relate to children with neurodiversity - the vast majority of them diagnosed as autistic - for whom the state school system as currently designed is completely inappropriate. Local Authorities/ the DfE know that this is a fact, as has repeatedly been proved, yet continue to refuse to provide appropriate educational environments for these children, traumatise the children and gaslight/ blame/ threaten their parents.

This is by FAR the main factor in poor attendance rates nationally and is an absolute scandal: a systemic failing of a significant minority of children which is known and yet is deliberately continued with no suitable schools provided for these children, instead knowingly subjecting them to immense and lifelong mental health damage and, in many cases, ruining their life chances and any prospect of them reaching their potential.

All other factors influencing poor attendance are either unavoidable (e.g. children who are genuinely ill and should not be at school), or insignificant distractions (by magnitude) e.g. parents taking their children on holidays or the vanishingly small - and that IS what they are, statistically - proportion of parents who simply “can’t be bothered to send their children to school”; clearly such cases will exist but they categorically are not anywhere close to being the primary cause of the poor attendance rates nationally and therefore should not be where efforts and resources are directed before solutions are put in place to address the issue which has been proved to be by far the largest cause of absences, per multiple pieces of robust and statistically validated research on the topic.

Therefore, bullying perfectly sensible parents because they have kept unwell children with infectious diseases off school (rightly), shaming children, telling children not being ill is “an achievement”, or making children feel like they have somehow failed because they were ill and their parents made the responsible choice to keep them at home while sick, is not only inappropriate but will also do nothing significant to improve overall school attendance rates because it is not the primary cause of poor attendance in the first place. In fact, as any credible epidemiologist would tell you, it is actually extremely counterproductive to have such policies because encouraging/ coercing/ normalising sending infectious children into school quite obviously increases the overall number of sick days of both children and members of school staff.

This is classic “busy work”; a futile (and actually self-sabotaging) attempt to try to make it look like they are “doing something” about “the problem” when in fact it is misdirection because by far the primary cause of poor school attendance is not responsible parents keeping sick children at home or taking them to medical appointments: this is a distraction from the underlying cause that needs to be addressed, and a deliberate distraction designed to externalise the blame onto families because schools, Local Authorities and the DfE don’t want to deal with the actual problem because it is entirely their responsibility to fix and outwith the control of parents. The primary cause of high school absence rates - causing levels of absence orders of magnitude higher than any other factor or even all other factors combined - is that the structure of the state school system is completely inappropriate and inaccessible for a large minority of pupils and that despite the DfE being fully aware of this it continually refuses to provide appropriate schools that these children CAN attend sustainably, despite the majority of them desperately wanting to do so and their parents also wanting this, in fact in many cases fighting these “authorities” that claim they want children to attend school for YEARS through courts to make it possible for their children to receive any education at all.

Poor attendance is associated with poor educational outcomes, as other posters have noted. So why is the primary cause of poor attendance by far being ignored, with parents who try to address these issues with schools and Local Authorities being gaslit and ignored and forced to fight protracted legal battles with Local Authorities behaving illegally, sometimes for YEARS, simply to get them to comply with the basic requirements in the Education Act and the Human Rights Act for every child to be able to access education? Many of these children are left with no access to education for months or YEARS despite their parents’ best efforts to fight for this basic right for them.

Meanwhile we have idiots pretending that the school attendance problem is that Luke’s family took him out of school two days before the end of term so that they could afford a holiday, or that Emily stayed off for three days with a bad cold. And apparently Luke and Emily’s life chances will now be ruined. But it’s apparently fiiiiinnnnnneeee to leave many other children with no access to education at all for months or years on end.

I refer you back to the extremely large grey animal sitting in the room, making trumpeting sounds, spraying water and flapping its very large ears around trying to attract attention of the seemingly oblivious and self-righteous so-called “education professionals” in the hope that at some point the DfE, Local Authorities and teachers will acknowledge the poor grey animal’s existence.

Attendance rates will not improve significantly until these “professionals” and “authorities” stop expressing faux concern and trying to displace blame onto families and actually address the underlying cause of the vast majority of cases of low attendance.

Don’t hold your breath.

soundsys · 11/12/2025 22:34

I mean, I don't disagree that the absence policies can be a bit much but... If your child isnt well enough to go to school surely you just... Keep them off school regardless?

Owl55 · 11/12/2025 23:08

Grandaughter had raging temp for 3 days , couldn’t get it down ,cough and feeling v poorly she went to local walk in clinic and wasn’t getting any better , diagnosed with flu , mum was told she may feel poorly for up to 3 weeks . She was absent from school for about 10 /12 days , school constantly ringing about her abscence and demanded proof from walk in clinic that she had attended there and was genuinely ill. It was very frustrating that school demanded proof and walk in centre had to sign a slip proving it ! The following week at least 10 children in her class were off with the same symptoms and missed receiving the nasal flu spray .

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