That prayer to Jesus is inappropriate at a company party?

[Kate8889]

I went with my husband to a company Christmas party and before we started to eat a woman came to the microphone and said a short prayer in the name of Jesus as thanks/blessings for the food. Everyone was expected to bow their head.

This is the first time I've been witness to something like this, it is a secular company with many Jewish, Muslim and agnostic people. We have been going to this Christmas party for 7 years and it's never been like this.

That's fine, but why celebrate Christmas then ?

Get this. I was at a Hen Party once and as I was about to tuck into hamburgers, the venue host started saying something and everyone joined their hands and I realised it was some kind of grace.

It was in Friesland (conservative north of Holland) and the venue owners, speaking that language, were clearly religious even though the hen was not. I had been talking loudly in English and it took a few moments before I realised what was going on and shut up!

Nah, it's fine. Chill out.

I subscribe to his blog and he’s not of that view! I don’t know how much is open to unsubscribed so I’ve posted a screenshot

https://www.bartehrman.com/why-is-christmas-on-december-25th/

Because it is a holiday of cultural significance. As you well know.

This

Fair enough. As I said, it was first result and I just read the abstract.

Instead of getting into a papers war, do you accept that the scholarly consensus is that Christmas was borrowed from the Pagans ?

Even if you don't agree with that theory.

No I don’t. It definitely used to be accepted but it is not anymore. That’s a very outdated view. If the link I posted one above works for you that’s a very good read from probably the most famous researcher of Christianity (who happens to not be a Christian) on why he used to think that but changed his mind.

Ah right. So It's a battle of academic qualifications then :-)

Nah, that's out of my lane.

When will the encyclopedias be updated?

Brittanica says :

"One widespread explanation of the origin of this date is that December 25 was the Christianizing of the dies solis invicti nati (“day of the birth of the unconquered sun”), a holiday in the Roman empire that celebrated the winter solstice as a symbol of the resurgence of the sun, the casting away of winter, and the Heralding of the rebirth of spring and summer."

And :

"A second view suggests that December 25 became the date of Jesus’ birth by a priori reasoning that identified the spring equinox the date of the creation of the world and the fourth day of creation, when the light was created, as the day of Jesus’ conception(i.e., March 25). December 25, nine months later, then became the date of Jesus’ birth. For a long time the celebration of Jesus’ birth was observed in conjunction with his baptism. celebrated January 6."

No mention of John the Baptist.

it’s not a battle of academics because no serious academic believes this in 2025, I’m sure you won’t be able to find a published paper pushing this theory from the last 10 years. Did you read the Ehrman link?

“The theory attributing the December 25th date for Christmas to pagan origins first gained significant traction in the 18th and 19th centuries. It was during this period that scholars began to draw parallels between Christian practices and pre-existing pagan traditions.

A notable example is James G. Frazer who published a highly influential book The Golden Bough in 1890. His overall approach was to find cross-cultural parallels between different religious traditions in the past.
Consequently, he suggested that the reason why Christmas is on December 25th has to do with the pagan festival of “Sol Invictus”.
However, upon closer examination, this theory encounters several historical and contextual challenges. One of the key issues is the lack of any contemporary evidence from the early Christian period directly linking the choice of December 25th for Christmas to pagan festivals.
The bishop Ambrose (4th century) described Christ as the sun but he never made the connection between the December 25th and pagan festivals.

Moreover, Christ was often depicted with imagery associated with the sun or as a sun god in various forms of art, including coins and mosaics, particularly in the late Roman and early Byzantine periods (4th to 6th centuries). This iconography was part of the broader cultural and religious context of the time.

Despite that, no Christian or pagan authorsuggested that Christians deliberately chose December 25th as Christmas because of the “Sol Invictus” festival. While this is, to be honest, an argument from silence, some arguments from silence have the force!

The first source that links these two things together comes from the 12th century! It claims that the early Christians changed the celebration of Jesus’ birthday from January 6 to December 25th because of the “Sol Invictus” festival.

Basing a theory about something that occurred in the 3rd or 4th century on a source written c. 800 years later isn’t a proper way to do serious historical work.

The fatal flaw in the theory of pagan origins for Christmas is related to the chronology. I’ve mentioned that in 274 C.E. Emperor Aurelian established the feast of the birth of Sol Invictus on December 25th.

But several decades earlier (c. 203 C.E.), a bishop from Rome, Hippolytus, wrote: “For the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, but from Adam, five thousand and five hundred years.” (Comm. on Dan. 23.3.)

In other words, Christians believed that Jesus was born on December 25th decades before Aurelian introduced the “Sol Invictus” festival. This represents a serious blow to the popular theory that seeks the origins of December 25th and Christmas in a particular pagan festival.
”

Fair enough. Bart says it too.

So the encyclopedias need updating, if that is the consensus.

DP sorry

Some very odd responses here. Do people really think a company is celebrating Jesus'birth at the Christmas party and only Christians should attend?

Weird, but it may have been the woman decided to do it rather than a company decision.

Yeah agreed!

it does seem funny that studies of something like religion can change consensus when someone saying the same thing about biology research would be totally accepted but sometimes things do move on 😅

While I do agree that it's rather odd at a company do, I tend to think it's one of those things that does no harm so not worth getting bothered about. We have some religious friends who always offer to say grace if they come to our house for dinner. If it makes them happy why should I object?
Anyway it gives the people at the event something to talk about 😂.

How about this
"A woman came to the microphone and said a short prayer in the name of Jesus as thanks/blessings for the food"
Hardly the same now is it?
Doesn't sound all fire and brimstone to me. I think you're catastrophizing at this stage.

Or “A woman came to the microphone and said “Thank you all for you all for coming. I hope you all have a lovely time, and a very, very happy Christmas”.

We don't know what the prayer was.

I have posted above on how it could be problematic.

Here is an example of prayer being weaponized.

'Islamophobia: Critics decry Christian prayer at swearing-in of Muslim lawmaker - ABC News (go.com)

Because most people gave up imaginary friends as toddlers.

You’re entitled to your beliefs but understand not everyone shares them or wants to participate.

One day this thread will be studied as an example of how many people could be brainwashed into thinking Christmas is not a Christian festival, that the UK (head of state, also head of the church, bishops sitting in the legislature, church of england state schools, majority religion Christianity) is not Christian country and religious beliefs are not expressly protected by the Equality Act. The denialism is hilarious.

Brainwashed ?

Don't you mean de-programmed from religious indoctrination ?

Set free from religious dogma ?

Broken the shackles of religious oppression ?

Escaped the enforced belief of fairy tales ?

Or have we learned to think for ourselves .

But the fact that the OP had a problem with the prayer do you not think she would have mentioned had it been a fire and brimstone type thing? 😂My quote was from the OP herself.
She didn't mention "weaponising" prayer, such a typically snowflake wording there lol like I said, your catastrophizing massively here.

Yes I'm sure that's the type of thing that goes on all up and down the country, someone deviates from that slightly and is accused of all sorts lol

Calling for a Christian prayer is not “deviating slightly”!