To think *some* independent shops really aren't helping themselves...?

[BeansAndNoodles]

I'm massively supportive of small businesses, I try to use them as often as I can. We are lucky to have a high street with lots of independent shops. However, my trips to town are limited due to being short of spare time, plus parking costs a fortune unless you limit it to the free 90 mins that you get in the supermarket car park, etc.

But time and time again I go to one of the independent shops to find them randomly shut. I get that they probably only have one staff member so it's hard to stay open if anything out of the ordinary happens, but it's still so flipping frustrating.

The last few trips to town have ended with me ordering stuff online or going into one of the chains because the independent shops I wanted were closed for no apparent reason. The independent health food shop is the worst, they close for an hour at some point between 11 and 3 for lunch but it's not the same time day to day and they don't say on the closed sign what time they'll be back, so if you get there and it's shut you don't know if it's worth trekking back to that end of town in 30 mins or not. I tend not to even bother checking now and just go straight Holland & Barrat instead. Several more shops seem to rely on posting that days opening hours on their FB page, but thats hardly a reliable way to tell people if they're open or not! Last week I had an afternoon off and took a trip to a different town specifically to go to a shop that stocks work by local artists to get some cards and gifts, only to find it closed with no indication of why or if it was opening late or what. I checked their FB page while stood outside but nope nothing. Later that day (3 hours after their stated opening time) they posted that they'd decided to open later for the Christmas lights switch on and that they hoped people would come and support them

Anyway I've just seen yet another slightly passive aggressive plea from one of the owners of the worst shops for this, complaining how quiet business is and telling people to use them or lose them yada. Well yes I totally agree but more often then not when I try to use them they're not bloody open!

I agree with this! I really do like to support local but a local ‘fresh produce’ store recently opened near me (I say opened - again, is rarely actually open when I pass) In one section it was selling Old El Paso fajita kits for double the price of the Sainsburys next door!! Just because it was surrounded in fairy lights and presented nicely. Their fruit also didn’t seem to be better quality.

Just after lockdown it was a big birthday for my mum. A new florist had opened in the village so i decided to shop local instead of using chains or supermarket flowers. Went with a budget of £60 - £70 which might not be much for some people but is for me and represented a big chunk of my disposable income.

Went in , she put it in the diary, went through what i wanted, what flowers, what ferns and other bits, lots of detail and she said "see you in 2 days" which was when i was picking them up.

2 days later i went in and she looked at me blankly, told her i was here to pick up the flowers, long story short she forgot. Asked if i could come back in 10 mins which i stupidly did. The bouquet looked rushed and didnt have a lot of flowers i said i wanted. I was so disappointed with it.

I have never gone back and never will.

A local hairdresser near me which I liked to support, in a small village and staffed mostly by local ladies, a few of whom I knew by name. I had been going to them for several years. They are by no means cheap.

I was going away for a weekend and needed a quick last minute fringe trim, didn't have time for a full cut. I popped in and asked if I could please have the trim. The answer? Not "sure, sit down and wait a few minutes and we'll be with you with we can". Or even "we are super busy right now but can you come back in an hour/at 2 o'clock?" etc, which I would have been happy to do. The answer was "no, sorry, we are too busy today". Nothing else.

I have never gone back.

My husband went to the butchers in the market as they were complaining about people not shopping local. He asked for 500g of the meat and the butcher chided him for not asking for it in pounds and ounces.
Nice to be insulted when buying beef!
Not helping themselves at all.

Absolutely agree. It is completely possible (as seen above by a PPs post about their dad’s shop) to be clear and reliable about hours.

We have a local shop run by a combination of volunteers and paid staff and it’s always open as advertised. They even shared on Facebook when they changed their closed days (Sunday and Monday) and why, so I always remember that now.

I don’t mind shorter hours, or closed days, but it needs to be clear and always the same.

I'm co-owner of a small business (not a shop, though), and we make a point of trying to provide better service than larger companies (affordable, more personalised, prompt response, and so on). I expect small shops to do the same—make the same effort, at least, as I realise they often can't compete on prices. If they don't, I won't bother with them or feel a moment's guilt about it. There are some independent shops that seem to be more of a hobby than an actual job for the owners, which is fine if that's what they want or all they can manage, but if they're not open when you need them, they shouldn't go around crying that no-one 'supports' them.

I once went in to an independent card shop who didn’t have any wrapping paper apart from some tatty rolls in the corner.

I walked out and caught the bus to Card Factory instead.

I know they could have been waiting for more stock, but it still puts you off going back when you can get exactly what you need when you need it somewhere else more reliable.

Some local places have a midweek day or afternoon off, but it was much more common when I was a kid. This is in suburban London.

Tbh most of our independent shops are open good hours, but they're mostly grocery places anyway. Sadly all we have otherwise these days is bookies, vape shops, charity shops and barbers! I feel quite lucky we have one of the few nice shops - a flower shop - on our street corner. So I do try to use them. They open late enough to catch commuters and smartly are always open late around Mothers Day and Valentines!

you have missed the point. Again.

It isn't about being open for that one customer. It is about having clearly signposted business hours and sticking to them.

So if you have to do a bank run on Tuesdays at 2pm? then you build that into your working week.

It's really not rocket science.

What is with these cafes opening at 10am!? It's rife in the city where I live. I've already had about 5 coffees by 10am, and my mind is already thinking about lunch.

And can I also moan about cafes that close at 4pm but start cleaning up well before (so takeaway cup only, and you can’t sit inside) that so you can’t sit in with your hot drink and cake. Surely 3-5 is prime cafe time? That’s why I end up in Costa when I don’t really want to.

Yes, you do have to wonder at those who doggedly stick to the 9-5 weekday model. In Europe, it's really common for museums and attractions to be shut on Monday/Tues but have longer or later opening hours Weds-Sat and short hours on a Sunday.

I grew up in a rural area where it's the norm that the shop front is open for quite long hours, but the owner is often in the back doing chores/watching TV etc (or making handmade cards etc) so their hours are long but loose.

We have a few wonderful small businesses near us. One of them is going next year and I’m absolutely gutted.

However, I know exactly the type you mean. People can’t open a shop and expect to run it like a hobby. The small businesses owners on Instagram crying and talking about their mental health does my nut in. It doesn’t smack of professional business.

I'm co-owner of a small business (not a shop, though), and we make a point of trying to provide better service than larger companies (affordable, more personalised, prompt response, and so on)

Yes! My DH owns a small business. He can’t compete with larger, online businesses on price so he has to offer things they can’t. Quick turn around (often same day or while they wait with a coffee), more personalised service, we live round the corner so he’s happy to pop round out of hours if someone is desperate. He has had to put some boundaries in place as it got a bit silly (customers calling at midnight) but on the whole, he’s flexible, helpful, will go out of his way when he can and offers a fast service.

As a result he’s growing - always being recommended to people by his customers, has picked up some large local companies as customers recently - and (touch wood) business is doing ok.

One thing, you cannot underestimate is the power of word of mouth. If you get a reputation for being rude, unhelpful, not having things in stock, hardly ever open, awkward, etc, people just won’t bother and word gets round very quickly, especially in a small town

I’m also finding them to be increasingly beggy and guilt tripping that they should be the ones to have my money. It’s become less about small business and more about employees having some moral duty to fund other people’s hobbies.

The problem with many - by no means all, but many - independent businesses is that they think their independence is in itself such a virtue that they don’t need to offer any other USP. “People should support independent businesses” - why? Are you offering something different or special? Convenience, expertise, a distinctive product range or niche service? Because if not, why am I going to pay over the odds just because you’re independent?

There’s this huge independent ethnic food store near me. The array of products is mind-blowing; I get stuff there I’ve never even seen elsewhere. I don’t care that it isn’t cheap (although it’s by no means hideously expensive) because these are things I can’t get in Tesco or Sainsbury’s. I have a reason to go there - it’s always well-stocked, the staff are friendly and helpful rather than looking like they’d rather be anywhere else…

If you, as an independent retailer, can offer me something distinct or special, I’ll use you. If you just have what I could buy in a supermarket or Amazon, but cry “But we’re independent!!” if anyone questions the price, forget it. You not having the buying power of a multiple is your problem, not mine.

There’s an Italian restaurant near me that’s always warning people to use them or lose them. They (supposedly) offer takeaway, but not through the usual apps. Fine. So I call them to order and it rings and rings, nobody answers. Keep trying and eventually someone answers, quite abrupt, they’re very busy, can I order through fb messenger. You can’t order on their website btw. So I sent a message on messenger with my order and a phone number so I could pay and…crickets. No acknowledgement, no response, nobody called to take my money, nothing. No doubt they were overwhelmed on that particular night but nothing to stop them replying to explain and offer to deliver another evening. Never heard from them again yet they continue to post whines about using them or losing them!

We have a lot of those near us - particularly baked goods ones. I think the same about the pricing structure they have tbh. Things are a similar price to what I can get from Baked in town and at least I know that the physical shop / staffed counter will be fully stocked when I get there. I do like to support small business but I do think some of them might be a bit unreasonable about what they expect from a customer. Of course no one should be stealing but it is offset by the profit of employing absolutely no one surely?

In Europe, it's really common for museums and attractions to be shut on Monday/Tues but have longer or later opening hours Weds-Sat and short hours on a Sunday.

I went to an art exhibition in Stockholm once that was open until 1am. Here it’s 5pm or bust, and if you arrive after quarter to four they’re telling you they close at 5 before you even get a hello.

I think the point is that when you buy from a local independent business, much of the money stays local.

That is very much not the case when you buy from a national or multinational company with shareholders, such as Sainsbury's.

Incidentally, Amazon is worse than most for two reasons - they avoid paying UK taxes, and employ half as many people as other companies, for the equivalent amount of goods bought.

This reminds me of this shop near me, it is closed now I think...lots of passive aggressive 'signs' and closing early etc 'because they would rather clean their toilet than deal with moochers' (customers). Right!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bath/comments/1jsvx5m/passive_aggressive_plant_shop/

No bus fare in the UK is over £3 at the moment, and unlike parking, it won't be more expensive the longer you stay.

I think that's England for buses - here Wales kids and teens just got £1 or £3 daily caps but adults fare are usually higher than £3.

The bus fare to nearest town so high we pay same to go to big city for entire day out - so no longer go to nearby town - it's a pity as it good better range of shops due to free parking than our local city center. Transport costs are off putting though as they've just crept up and up.

There a restaurant on walk into center never had opening times or menu up in over a decade always seems empty but hangs on. We'd like to try it.

They've manged to open an arcade of independent shops - but last time my younger two tried to shop there it was randonly closed entire thing - no signs with opening hours. Last time I went up thought they'd changed that opening hours on all the shops,

When they re-did the market few years ago it turned into a food court - but there were no menu or prices - so queue built up and people couldn't get seats as delays as eveyone asked what theyhad and prices and dithered- took a month then all of them had something up usually home-made clashing with the uniform rest of it. It had been re-done by professionals so how they missed something so basic is beyond me.

The worst job I ever had was at a small, independent shop. When the owner decided to close early or open late she wouldn't pay me for those hours. She acted like she was doing me a favour but it often meant I was paying to go to work due to childcare costs. She resented the minimum wage and did everything she could to try to circumvent employment law because hers was a small business.

I shop wherever it suits me, I don't owe any business my custom.

Where i live, a nice smallish town, none of the independent coffee shops open until after 9am. I remember being so frustrated with a baby seeing posts from them on social media about how they were struggling etc. They were totally missing a key group of people. Two big chain coffee shops in the town of course were open so I could get an early morning walk and coffee before playgroup.

I agree. Two independent food places near me have closed after just a year. One was a cafe. They were open consistently, but didn't manage the cafe well. They wanted to mostly sell English breakfast in an up and coming area with lots of young families, couples or single people with dogs etc. It was way too ordinary and other choices were lacking. Then they announced they will do sandwiches, pasta and chicken schnitzel for lunch etc. great idea for the WFH people, but the few times I went I couldn't see what was on offer or what I could be getting so I walked out with just a pastry. It's also not a good look if you don't fill my iced latte up to the top. They closed at 4.

The other was a burger and milkshake place. A bit like the southern fried chicken places. Get two whole chickens for 50p or something. Totally uninviting shop. Milkshake choices of lotus biscuits, Oreo and the usual.

Neither appealed to millennials or gen z people. I don't understand how they couldn't figure that out. There aren't many 60yo old Gary's and Linda's around who want their greasy spoon.

A Turkish place across the road is always heaving. Their place has character, they make good food and I haven't minded the price increases over the past couple of years because the food is consistent and I don't feel they are trying to be stingy.

I'm longing for a nice independent cafe in walking distance.

YANBU. Our local village bakery put out a post during lockdown about how if the village wants an independent locally owner bakery, you all have to come in and buy stuff from us etc. I made a special trip to go in (their baked goods are average at best which is why I never normally bother) and when I walked in, I was the only customer yet was roundly ignored by the two staff members in there who were chatting between themselves. I waited a few minutes, neither acknowledged me or made a move to take my order, so I left and have never been back since.