To be worried about university fees?

[ChoresChoresChores]

I had a ‘discussion’ with my partner last night about my worries about money. One of which is the upcoming potential cost of university. My DS is nearly 17 so uni costs are very much on the horizon. For his best chance at a career he will need to be in a city in order to make connections and get potential work experience. I also have another 2 child both of whom are going to want to go to University.

Because of their ages there will be 2 years where I have 2 children at Uni.

I’m trying to cut costs, save as much as I can but I’ve been told I’m unreasonable because their loans will cover what they need. I know from calculators that this is simply not true and that they also only qualify for minimum help because of my earnings (not higher rate tax but top end).

So realistically if you have kids heading towards uni, how much are you expecting to have to subside them? Am I crazy for actually worrying? I full expect them to get jobs in fact the 2 oldest are both currently working.

We give DS £1000 a month. This is mainly his rent and the rest is for food. He gets the minimum loan, even if we topped it up to the fullmloan amount, it wouldn't cover his rent. The system doesn't work for anyone.

Our dcs got a loan for uni fees. They lived at home as we are in London and it was an easy 20 min commute to their first choice unis. It was something we had thought about when many of our friends left the capital in lockdown.
We didn't charge them rent and the other bills were no different so it didn't cost more. They had jobs during holidays but were too busy with coursework and social/volunteering activities during term (these helped them with networking and helped with getting internships later).

Dcs have a 3 year age gap so only one child at uni at any one time, that was something we had in mind when planning them!

The biggest problem with the maintenance loans is the household income to qualify for the full loan hasn't changed in 20 years and is still a household income of £28000. A two adult household with minimum wage jobs are over the threshold and unlikely to be able to afford top up all of the difference.

The other issue is it being a household income and not a parental income. You could be a parent with a low paid part time job but move a new partner into your house with a well paid job just before your child goes to uni. They then won't qualify for the full loan as they might have done before you moved them but you can't expect a new partner to be subsidising your child's uni costs.

The debate about tuition fee costs has diverted attention away from the real costs of universities in England. The other home nations have a better systems, I think it is Wales where all students get the same amount of living costs, the only thing that varies with parental income is the amount that is a grant and how much is a loan

I’m trying to work out what the average cost expectation per month is

You need to decide what you are going to pay, not other people. I know kids on min loan who don’t get a bean and are expected to contribute if they come home in the holidays. Other parents are “well she needs a one bed flat as she doesn’t like sharing, private gym membership, eating out 3x a day as she needs to be studying, not cooking, taxis everywhere for the same reason, private sports coaching because she loves sport so naturally we will continue to cover”. Lots of parents talk about covering gym membership, coffees, and nights out.

We have an agreement we will top up to max loan. Practically for this has meant £4.5k a year for dc1 and £6.9k for dc2 in London plus probably £500-£1000 starting out expenses - new laptop, “big shop”, equipment and household stuff plus transport. important they know what they are getting so they can make sensible choices. Dc1 went to an inexpensive city, didn’t work, had a comfortable time. Dc2 took a gap year to save, went to London, works part time. She’s fine but she couldn’t have done in on the loan amount without her saving and wages. What you don’t want is “mum! I’ve got an offer from LSE/UCL/Edinburgh/Bath and then the realisation that a gap year is in order. It’s fine to pick an expensive place if you are prepared to work for it imo.

For second year look at rightmove. Tick the “student accommodation” filter and look at the map to see where the housing is and what it costs. General knowledge will give you an idea (you suspect Newcastle and Sheffield will be cheaper than London or Bristol but there are anomalies due to shortages). They should pick for the course, but be sensible about it. You are essentially going to be in the soup fir getting on for £100 a week per kid (dh and I have 5 jobs between us because 4 kids sounded like a good plan 20 years ago)

Why do parents have to contribute now? Uni students are adults. What happens if a high earning parent just says no?

Most would be too poor to keep going unless they are lucky enough to get decent part time work around studying. You don’t get any UC or anything. They may come a cropper with private accommodation too if they can’t get a guarantor but universities will often help there. The process for estrangement is quite strict - you can’t just say “my mum won’t top up my loan” and suddenly receive more funding.

It’s not really “now” it was the same when I went a million years ago. I was especially annoyed as my same age cousin left home (pregnant) and got housing benefit etc. as an adult whereas I got fuck all because I was a “child”. I felt like I was doing the sensible thing but she was the one who was financially rewarded.

You also need to be aware that working during term time may not be possible either due to course demands or because there are now more students looking for jobs, than jobs available.

Gap years to work and save are getting more common.

DD knows students that are working 2 or 3 days a week and missing lectures/workshops/labs to do so because they need the money.
She also knows students who have kept sixth form part time jobs in their home town and are commuting home (often quite long distances) so that they keep them. I would argue that neither of these are desirable, but clearly a necessity when parents can't or won't provide sufficient financial support.

If your child is in the sixth form they also need to be getting a job now to give them maximum chance of getting a job at university because they have relevant experience.

The student has to take a gap year to save or, work part time through A levels and the summer before, and consider carefully which course they do in terms of location as some are cheaper or easier to find work at.

Its not really about a high earning parent though a 2 parent household earning 32k each are over the threshold.

Yes, that's true. It's probably not sustainable throughout the whole degree. My eldest spent around 50 hours a week studying in the library during his final year. He didn't have a job but this was before rents got ever more expensive plus he had the full loan and some other help.

The most important thing is to make sure the course offers value for money and decent earnings potential after they leave. If this is the case they will make up the money they need to take out on loans in fairly short order.

If you want to save money there are opportunities that often come with strings attached. Such as industrial sponsorship. Not surprisingly these days competition is quite high.

Then you can look into other things that may help to lower costs, like going to a local university and living at home.

I think the most important thing is to have a frank conversation with your DC about how much you can support them financially, however uncomfortable that might be. They can then make informed decision for themselves about ways to make university a little more manageable - whether a gap year, working, or whatever.

For DC1, she chose to look at unis with a better cost of living. I'd say don't just look at the cost of halls but also local rents. Sadly this meant that she didn't apply to UCL, which had an amazing course, but the numbers just weren't adding up. As a rough rule of thumb Northern and Scottish cities have a cheaper cost of living. There are also scholarships and grants to be had - DC1 was offered IIRC £1kpa by Glasgow without even applying, and there are lots more out there if you dig around.

I do also think that the amounts people on MN give their DC are not representative of most students' experiences. We top up to the maximum loan, and DC1 assures me that this is fine, but she doesn't live in en suite accommodation, have a gym membership or get ubers everywhere. Her student experience appears very like mine was - beans on toast and cheapo aldi own brand spirits at house parties.

DD lives off her maintenance loan and we pay her rent.
Halls were just over £8k for 40 weeks. But rents vary according to where you go. She's in an affordable city and we're expecting to pay around £6,500 for 50 weeks next year. One of her friends went through clearing to an expensive city and was only offered one choice of hall which was £13k a year.
A loan will not cover all the expenses.
If you're going to struggle to top up, your DS might need to take a gap year and work to save up.

I went to uni 2006-2010 and the maintenance loan wasn't enough then but the difference could be managed by working 4-8h on a Saturday or small parental contributions. I used to get £200-300 a term off my parents - one big shop usually at the start of term and then some cash when they came to visit which covered the basic costs and I worked in the summer holidays to cover the nice to haves and any new clothes and the odd meal out for someone's birthday

The problem is there last year was the first year in a long time that there has been an inflation linked increase to the maintenance loan which means there has been a decrease in what a maintenance loan will cover whilst rents, bills and food costs have increased dramatically which has meant the shortfall is increasing year on year.

The house hold income for the maximum and tapering of the family income that dictates whether you get the full or minimum maintenance loans hasn't increased in 20 years and with a house hold income of over £28k a year is required to get the full loan. To put this into perspective my partner and I had a household income of £28k a year whilst we were doing our phds through our stipends in the early 2010s and did not feel like a huge income the and again this was prior to all the high inflation we have had in recent years.

The bulk of student jobs are in the hospitality industry or retails both industries which has been hit hard having struggled to recover from the pandemic and the cost of living crisis and the increase in employers national insurance contributions. A lot of cities have 2 universities and 10,000 students there really isn't enough jobs for them to go around.

I do also think that the amounts people on MN give their DC are not representative of most students' experiences. We top up to the maximum loan, and DC1 assures me that this is fine, but she doesn't live in en suite accommodation, have a gym membership or get ubers everywhere. Her student experience appears very like mine was - beans on toast and cheapo aldi own brand spirits at house parties.

it's been said many times on this thread, but the cost of accommodation is really the big difference and that varies wildly between universities. DD's rent (in a small room in a no frills student house in a city in the North) next year is not much less than the maximum loan. If she had no other source of money, she literally wouldn't be able to survive.

At the end of the day the" better off" students because they qualify for a bigger load end up in more debt that the others though

Can you rent his room out whilst he is away? I know it’s not perfect but I am in a university city and that’s what I would do if it was otherwise unaffordable.

Yes very true. I shouldn't have glossed over that.

Well yes, but then the loan only starts to be repaid when earnings reach a certain amount, and repayments are then calculated based on income.
So you could have student A and student B following a similar trajectory after graduating, working in low paid jobs. If student A received the maximum loan and student B didn’t (so had had to be topped up their parents) then student A is effectively still getting an advantage.

the system is bloody nuts. Make the maximum loan available to all - theyre adults for heavens sake and shouldn’t have to rely on mum and dad. Then everyone is treated the same in terms of getting the loan and repaying it.

of course, the root of the problem is far too many young people nowadays are encouraged to go to university, whether they’re suited to it or need it or not. It’s crazy.

If they did what you suggest don’t you think that’ll encourage even more to go without having to think about it too much as they don’t need to worry about money? I don’t disagree with you by the way, they’re adults and the system doesn’t seem fair, but I’m sort of glad my kids will be forced to think about it more carefully as we will need to make adjustments to afford it, I was just given maximum loan (and admittedly some grants as was available when I went). I didn’t give money any thought, didn’t even look at accommodation prices until after I picked where to go. No job necessary, just took my loans and ran!

@logsahci guess we all come at it from our own experiences and perspective. I went to university in the very early 1980s when about 8% of people went (and of that 8% it must have been a teeny fraction from comprehensive schools like mine.) Getting top A level grades was a rarity, and if you got into university, you damn well went. No gap years, no messing.

It’s ludicrous to aim for half of young people to go, it totally devalues it and you end up with shed loads of young people with huge debt and far too often, pretty crap career prospects. There needs to be high quality alternatives to university. Proper training for work which doesn’t require a degree but does need a clear skills set.

that would require of course a systemic overhaul of the higher education, apprenticeships, vocational training. It can’t happen overnight but it’s the only real solution.

however, whatever numbers are going to university, my point remains that it’s wrong to treat these adults inequitably. They should all have access to an equal loan. Rent and living costs are the same regardless of whether your mum and dad happen to work, and regardless of what expenses - mortgage/ younger kids to support- your parents still have

I have absolutely no idea. I think my parents helped my brother and sister to some extent (I didn't need help because I had additional grants and benefits due to being disabled, and worked part time to get 1/3 off my accommodation). The loans do NOT cover it. Accommodation tends to take all your maintenance loan straight away. Lots of students work part time (my course suggested no more than 4 hours a week though). I had a friend that worked nights in a bar.

Like nursery fees all over again...