To think school lunch time assistant is picking on my child.

[Magentaredwand]

On two occasions over the last couple of weeks DD has mentioned a lunchtime assistant at school.

1st incident: DD said there was a bit of a misunderstanding with two other children which resulted in this LTA telling one of the children not to play with DD because she's not a nice girl. DD is sensitive and being called 'not a nice girl' upset her. Afterwards one of the children she has been playing with was chanting "you're a naughty girl" to DD. DD told same LTA. DD says LTA mocked her and called her a liar.

2nd incident: DD and one of the same girls were playing. LTA came up to the other girl and asked if she'd smacked another child in the face. Girl blamed DD. DD repeatedly told LTA she didn't. LTA said why would the other girl lie. DD said to LTA 'Why would I lie.' LTA said she was going to tell DD's teacher she'd smacked this boy. DD was upset about this.

DD has just turned eight. I know children fabricate the truth and I know DD isn't perfect but she's adamant this is how it went. I know my child, she is not physically aggressive.

There is history with this other child and DD. The other child is known to be a bit of a trouble maker. She's mischievous. She's pushed DD physically a few times, hidden her shoes etc. From what I understand home life has been turbulent for this girl and it undoubtedly has an impact on her outward behaviour.

If this LTA has said these things to DD, I don't think she has conducted herself very well as the adult in these situations. I feel like going to school at lunchtime to have a face to face with her, although I think this is probably unreasonable and it's just my lioness protecting her cub instinct kicking in. Plus, school more than likely wouldn't allow me access to this LTA. (When I say face to face, I mean I'd like to get her perspective, but I want to see for myself how she responds).

I keep thinking the adult (the LTA) wouldn't behave like this - but what if I dismiss it, and it turns out to be true. Not all adults are well-rounded and can show bias.

I guess the only option I have is to email the school.

This stuff is trivial, but it isn't for DD and I want her to know I have her back.

WWYD in this situation?

AIBU to get involved?

@Octavia64 It can't be easy navigating a playground full of squabbles and tales! However, as it was two incidents I need to honour my child's version of events and ask the questions.

I know I wouldn't be allowed to address a member of staff at lunchtime. This is just a fantasy that comes from a place of feeling like would she say to me what you've allegedly said to my child. Of course I wouldn't actually do it, but I feel like it! The thought of my small person being made to feel unheard and verbally attacked by a big person in authority makes me see red.

@TootsMaHoots I wouldn't go to school at lunchtime, it's just the thought of an adult speaking to DD like she allegedly has. I have been level headed (that was a slip of my emotions at the thought of DD being targeted by an adult).

I've sent a very polite but factual email about the alleged events. The head has responded to ask when the events happened.

I let a lot of things go over my head when it comes to DD and her tales from school, but I need her to know I'm in her corner to support her when she needs me to. I can't ignore two incidents.

@WombatStewForTea thank you.

I can't even begin to imagine navigating a playground full of kids!

I feel better knowing it is possible that these things happen.

@officiallybringing you've made me feel I've done the right thing. I often let things go, but the fact that DD has mentioned the same LTA twice made me feel it was something I had to action.

I asked DD if she'd like me to intervene before contacting the school. She said yes so I had to back her up.

Hopefully you will hear back soon, though I would go via the class teacher next time rather than jumping straight to the head.
It's also likely it's the same LTA because there may only be them on the playground! Usually we have 2 people at lunch but if one person is dealing with first aid then it may be that the only adult is this LTA hence her being the one who is always involved in the issues.

The second incident sounds pretty likely, with children being unaware of 'hitting' another child (when they are flailing their arms around) or 'pushing' another child (they bump into them when racing around). Usually once unpicked the issues become very different from X punched Y in the face to we were playing tag and I accidentally tagged their face. It sounds like your DD was also caught up in this herself so it's likely something did happen (with DD also getting hurt as well as the other child) but not to the extent it was reported to the adult!

Personally, as the class teacher I don't want to be dealing with that. I've enough on my plate and I don't line manage welfare staff so it's not my responsibility to investigate and deal with

I’m an LTA. I’m not a teacher or a TA.
some posters appear to confuse these roles.
I have a very different role and relationship to the (many) children I have to watch over (of various ages).
I have long lost track of the she did x, y won’t let me play type complaints that I try to navigate while also doing the “but he always does x (me he says he won’t this time, you won’t will you, let’s try again), p said the F word, no he didn’t etc. Then the teachers demanding observations and records because “she’s not being included” “she is not allowed to play with y”. can you keep an eye on A because his mum says he’s left out, on B because his mum says he was bullied (at a duty before I started work and about 4 weeks ago), C because his parents threatened a teacher because of something, D because he’s pulled a skirt down, E because he might wet himself…
And then, report back all the above in writing while going between groups of students (how?), complete safeguarding reports in my own time, without a school providing a computer with the school system information on it because I’m just a LTA (don’t get paid for this either with my huge £12,50 an hour salary), do food safety online training for 4 hours (don’t get paid) and so on. I oversee 24 4-5 year olds with one other LTA (this is a private school).

I then oversee 69-120 older children. Depending on the weather that is. Often entirely alone.

You know when little Deborah is trying to tell me something really sweet about Christmas and Jason has fallen over and I’m trying to ascertain if he’s broken a limb, while Deborah is still talking and I’m
smiling and nodding while also looking after PRIORITY Jason, and little Jacob might or might not have pushed Jack over, or they both might have pushed each other.. chances are I might sound dismissive of Toby running up to tell me Ben said something. I might not intend to sound dismissive but it might sound like that because I’m thinking “broken limb? Deal with first. Bullying? Need to stop that right away. And report. Crying. Need to comfort and report. Is child sad, hungry etc etc.
Now, repeat that with 60 or more DIFFERENT children minutes later who want to argue over a fucking football.

Yeah, go in and tell the head the lunchtime assistant has it in for your child. Just your child of course. They’ll definitely have singled them out.

But as class teacher it's your responsibility to know what is going on with the children in your class. In my school the head would be coming to the teacher to ask what they know about these incidents and they would be the first to be asked to follow up with the children, not the headteacher. I wouldn't be going to the head to report each time a child hurts another on the playground, even in a serious case it goes to the teacher first who then decides it's the head who needs to take action (continuing issues with behaviour for example).

Email and in the email ask to arrange a meeting with the head about it. Definetly need a paper trail

@Overthemhills I am not disputing your job is HARD! And it's insightful to get your perspective.

My job as mum is to ensure that if my child is feeling singled out because of an adults behaviour, her adult (me) is going to be proactive about it.

Imagine just for a minute the LTA did in take a disliking to a child, and their parent dismissed it because an adult can't possibly behave in that way.

I'd rather be wrong and eat humble pie than let it slide and my child suffer with no support.

@MagentaredwandI hope you get to the bottom of it.

I would send an email, tell your daughter you are doing that but make sure the email is worded carefully. That you're concerned that there's been a misunderstanding but obviously you're only getting your daughter's perspective etc...

If you go in with language like "taken a dislike to/picking on" (and I'm not saying that that isn't rye, I hope not but not all adults are nice!) but if you go in with that sort of attack the school will go on the defensive whereas if you go gently and work with them you're more likely to get listened to.

My son's primary had an evil cow lunchtime/playground assistant who consistently picked on boys for small things, spilling water, for example, but who was all 'kind and helpful' to the girls when they had similar problems. The girls noticed it too, and didn't like it. She still works there and I still see her in the playground, being chummy to girls and shouting at boys. Toxic people do exist in schools.
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@Magentaredwand oh absolutely you are right to raise it. I’m not suggesting you aren’t.
You may not find it satisfying in that you won’t hear the outcome of the issue.

What I found distasteful was where you said you wanted to rip her head off…(!)

The reason I outlined what a couple of minutes of my two hour daily role might look like is because it’s very difficult to have any kind of view as an LTA on an individual child especially if there are numerous other children around. it is absolutely nothing like being a teacher where you spend hours and hours with the child. You might interact with them for 30 seconds in one day.

I had a complaint made about me (I don’t know whether it was a parent or a teacher btw but I suspect the latter).

The complaint was that I’d quote “given the other children Johnny’s lunch and he was hungry later” (obviously not the child’s real name).

That was escalated to the head, who then spoke to me about in front of numerous other people. I am amazed at myself that I kept my cool.

What actually happened- Johnny was allowed different food at lunch to the others (can’t say why for obvious reasons). On this particular day Johnny refused to eat, said he was full, went under the table during lunch multiple times, pushed away his plate despite my best (gentle) efforts to get him to eat. I was told by another staff member he’d been allowed snacks throughout the morning. To me I’m thinking okay that makes sense that he’s not hungry because he always eats.

During this to and fro of pushing the plate away Johnny told another child that they could have his lunch, child takes some, another child then dives in but a third other children calls me to say what I’d happening (that’s all a matter of seconds) - I remove food etc.

I’ve absolutely no doubt the parents believed Johnny but cannot understand why a teacher would as they worked with Johnny every day and were the ones agreeing with parents to provide his (exclusively his) snacks.

For me it was sad because I had developed a good relationship with Johnny (by that I mean found a thing he was interested in so I could use talk about that to calm him down in the playground if he was stressed etc). I then had to keep my distance from him in any 1-1 scenario because I simply couldn’t risk being accused of treating him poorly- for my mental health sake if nothing else (I struggle immensely with injustice).

It’s not that “nasty” people don’t work in schools - they are everywhere! And it’s not necessarily that the LTA didn’t say something that could be interpreted as being mocking or dismissive - of course it could be that they intended to be hurtful to your DD. But equally she might not have intended any such thing.

If a child comes to me and says “Peter won’t let me play I take the child to Peter and together we talk about playing together, everyone is friends etc. if Peter still doesn’t want to play, I distract the other child saying let’s play x. Often there are tears and protests from the child who didn’t get what they wanted. Any explanations of I can’t force people to play together in a child friendly manner may well be seen by a child as preferring Peter or letting Peter away with something but that’s the way life is - I can’t make everyone happy all the time. I’m sure the same applies to any other LTA trying to ascertain if bullying took place and trying to find an on the spot way of dealing with something.

The LTA will not have insight into either or daughter or the other girl’s character or relationship.

Oh and it’s not for an LTA to discipline or investigate (as some pps suggested). They hear both sides on the spot and try to resolve the situation amicably and then report to staff (teaching/SLA/as appropriate).

Teachers do single out children.
My 8 year old is having awful trouble with his current teacher, shes always picking on him and singling him out. Ive had nothing but tears since september. The worst bit is he's begging me not to say anything to the school as he doesnt want to make things worse. And I completely see his point as when my mum complained about similar issues when I was little that teacher made my life hell.

@OhMelons
Thats horrible! I’m sorry for your DC.

But that’s also a teacher you are talking about.

The OP is talking about a lunchtime assistant (LTA for short). They only work at lunchtime.

They do not have classroom roles, other than maybe collecting the children if they are young from class to lunch. Helping with coats/wellies/cutting up food/getting a fork if one is dropped/ wiping up spills, clearing away plates/managing allergies so food is not given to the wrong child/listening to them if one is feeling sick/sad/encouraging eating if they don’t like food/helping use a knife and fork/stopping them getting up/escaping/taking them to the toilet etc.
Other duties are watching for choking/helping with bumps to the head etc.

It’s absolutely nothing like teaching where a teacher can routinely select children for special roles or discipline them for talking etc.

In some instances TAs and teachers supervise lunch. They may well discipline a child for lunch behaviour. Or carry a grudge against a child back to class. But an LTA simply cannot do that.

It doesn’t mean an LTA might not like a child (which sounds awful but I’m sure it happens) but the range of options open to an LTA to “pick on” (to use OP’s words) a child are limited, observable by many other children and staff and they’d be fired easily if there was a reasonable suspicion that they were behaving badly/inappropriately.

They have usually got a basic contract that allows this and a pay grade that reflects the lack of authority and training that goes with that role.

The OP did not say the LTA was in fact a TA or a teacher..

@Overthemhillsi know, I realised as soon as I posted 🤦‍♀️ serves me right for trying to multitask and not reading properly.

I voted YABU because of how you said about going to the school to have a face to face with the LTA. That came across as aggressive.

YANBU to email the school (as you have now done) to ask about these incidents. You have heard your daughter’s perspective and now you need to hear from the LTAs perspective. And you need to trust that the school will do the right thing, whatever that is.

If you feel you can’t trust the school, then that’s a much bigger issue.

Your poor girl, I would definitely have a word with her teacher and see if it can be looked into.

My (then new) textiles teacher hated me in secondary school gcse final year early millennium. We had to choose a technology and I wanted to do food tech but knew my parents couldn't afford the ingredients. I'd had to choose textiles. I knew my parents couldn't afford the material for final coursework so was trying to save up dinner money to afford some basic material to make a cushion without having to bother them.

Because of the above I had to wait. She would go mental at me and threaten to ring my parents "and get me in so much trouble" as well as digging at me regularly every lesson and if she saw me around the school. I explained parents couldn't afford it and what I was having to do and she still persisted she was 'going to get me in so much trouble".

She did ring home and my mum could tell from the way the teacher was talking that it was more than just reporting I didn't have the equipment I would need and reported that the teacher sounded like she was disappointed when my parents explained that yes, money was tight but they would get it sorted as soon as they could and weren't at all going to tell me off at all.

She took against all the kids who had no natural sewing talent! Some people just shouldn't be in positions of responsibility. It's been almost 25 years and I still remember how she made me feel every ep and how it felt seeing her around the school every day.

@HashtagShitShop
Tbats horrible too! When I was in secondary school (way back when) I had an art teacher who ridiculed my work and it me off for so very many years (I paint for fun now and I’m actually okay at it!).

I think though the OP’s point is a bit different as will the OP’s daughter’s experience be different because it’s not a teacher they have the issue with - it’s a lunchtime assistant.

As I’ve said upthread it’s of course possible the LTA did say exactly what the OP’s daughter says she said with exactly that intention but it’s also possible that the LTA was diffusing a situation and said something akin to “why do you want to play with X if they are not a nice girl” ie parroting back the other child’s words.

Now in my role as LTA I’d never do that - what I would do is say something like “I understand you want to play with A but I’ve asked A and they are saying they don’t want you to play so the best thing we can do is something else “.

Same response if there is an alleged punch/slap/kick that I didn’t see - bring the pupils together ask them what happened, if there’s an admission get them to apologise, remind both parties we play kindly etc. If no-one admits it and no other child can tell me what happened I inform them both I’ll be reporting it to their teachers to deal with..

If I see an incident take place and a child denies they did anything I’ll report them for the incident and for being dishonest and disrespectful. But that’s as far as I can go.

The way some children speak to LTAs is shocking. Their parents undoubtedly wouldn’t believe it. I had a 4 year old stand on my foot and twist his heel around (for no reason whatsoever) today. That was 2 minutes after another 4 year old told me to “get my fat butt over here”. (And yes this is a private school). I doubt either child’s parents will even be told about the incidents. Certainly their parents won’t be coming in to apologise to me.

Last year a 15 year old boy asked me for a kiss in front of 30 odd children aged between 10 and 15. The head/SLA didn’t even acknowledge my email about that incident.

People complain about school incidents without any apparent awareness of how children behave differently in school to home (they have different “pressures “ I’m sure). When staff are there solely to supervise lunch so teachers can have a break and to keep children safe there is a lot less “skin in the game” so to speak.

I can’t even tell you most of the older children’s names. If I do know their names it’s because they’ve been involved in a number of incidents or spend time talking to me (if they have problems or are a bit lonely).

I never wanted to work in a school and anyone who does a role like this long term is either mad or a saint!

My Dm was a lunchtime supervisor for 25 years, she ended up as supervisor of all the other lunchtime assistants, and would indeed sometimes mention when she had to have words with individuals who she felt were being unfair to the children. I don't know whether your Dd's school.has the same set up, but it might be worth asking, so that a supervisors opinion can be sought .

This

As others have said, it sounds like something to get in touch with school about, so that there is a record of these incidents with LTA. Might be worth speaking to SLT.

I had similar with my child at school. My child told ant home after collecting them. Before I had chance to do anything a teacher phoned to say it had been reported by another teacher and the head was taking action. The LTA had done it before with other kids. I think she was encouraged to leave. Some people should do these jobs unfortunately.